Talk:Seltso (disambiguation)
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Definition of "seltso"
[edit]This disambiguation page targets Seltso the town, but also asserts that seltso is "a type of rural locality in Imperial Russia, referring to a village without a church around a landowner's estate". However, this definition is not mentioned at Imperial Russia, and so, strictly speaking, that entry should be deleted per MOS:DABMENTION which would make this dab page a candidate for speedy deletion. However, the word "seltso" or "selt'so" or "selt`so" is used in a number of articles with the meaning "village". The word is not defined in wiktionary. I do not have the expertise to make a good edit to a relevant article to help users who are looking for this definition. Is there another editor that could do that? Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 06:32, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
- It's actually a diminutive of "selo" (village), and literally means "little village". Seltso, the town, was merely given the generic term as a proper name. I think an anchor for the first link I provided should be adequate as a DAB, along with a brief explanation of the 'tso' being a diminutive suffix. I'll try to find some form of RS for it for the sake of the DAB page. The current description as having no church is a breach of NOR. The term is far older than exclusive usage during the period of Imperial Russia, but possibly gets mentioned in texts from that period. The Russian Wikipedia article on the subject can be found here, but the article is WP:SYNTH as the main source supports a far more complex usage of the word. Hope that helps. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 01:53, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
- @Iryna Harpy: Thank you! I think the best thing to do now is (1) delete the 2nd entry on this page, and therefore (2) speedy delete this page, and (3) you could put a distinguish hatnote at Seltso pointing to Village#Slavic countries if you wish. Does that sound OK? Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 12:10, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
- While I agree that "Imperial Russia" is a horrible target for the definition entry, I don't quite agree it should be purged. Yes, "seltso" is a diminutive of "selo" (and including this aspect is definitely never going to satisfy the dab guidelines), but it was also a type of a rural locality (as well as an administrative division of a volost), which very well deserves a separate article or at least a mention somewhere not as high-level as "Imperial Russia". In the absence of a separate article or a linkable target, I see this particular dab as somewhat useful (if only under the IAR provisions), but if keeping it is too much to ask, I'll be happy to create a short stub based on the Brockhaus and Efron Encyclopedic Dictionary entry and adding a hatnote to Seltso (the town), wherever it ends up pointing. (I might have other sources in my library; Brockhaus just happens to be readily available).—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); August 14, 2017; 13:31 (UTC)
- I, too, would be reticent to purge the term, and would appreciate it if Ëzhiki could create a stub from the "Brockhaus and Efron" which does indeed state that the 'contemporary usage' is per the definition being used (i.e., BEED is an RS from the late 19th/early 20th century). --Iryna Harpy (talk) 19:56, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
- Here we go. It ain't much, but it's a start. Please feel free to expand. I also created a set index at Seltso (inhabited locality) (listing other places in Russia called "Seltso") and re-formatted the dab. Hopefully all formalities are now observed. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); August 15, 2017; 13:44 (UTC)
- @Ezhiki: Great job: thank you. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 06:57, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
- Here we go. It ain't much, but it's a start. Please feel free to expand. I also created a set index at Seltso (inhabited locality) (listing other places in Russia called "Seltso") and re-formatted the dab. Hopefully all formalities are now observed. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); August 15, 2017; 13:44 (UTC)
- I, too, would be reticent to purge the term, and would appreciate it if Ëzhiki could create a stub from the "Brockhaus and Efron" which does indeed state that the 'contemporary usage' is per the definition being used (i.e., BEED is an RS from the late 19th/early 20th century). --Iryna Harpy (talk) 19:56, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
- While I agree that "Imperial Russia" is a horrible target for the definition entry, I don't quite agree it should be purged. Yes, "seltso" is a diminutive of "selo" (and including this aspect is definitely never going to satisfy the dab guidelines), but it was also a type of a rural locality (as well as an administrative division of a volost), which very well deserves a separate article or at least a mention somewhere not as high-level as "Imperial Russia". In the absence of a separate article or a linkable target, I see this particular dab as somewhat useful (if only under the IAR provisions), but if keeping it is too much to ask, I'll be happy to create a short stub based on the Brockhaus and Efron Encyclopedic Dictionary entry and adding a hatnote to Seltso (the town), wherever it ends up pointing. (I might have other sources in my library; Brockhaus just happens to be readily available).—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); August 14, 2017; 13:31 (UTC)
- @Iryna Harpy: Thank you! I think the best thing to do now is (1) delete the 2nd entry on this page, and therefore (2) speedy delete this page, and (3) you could put a distinguish hatnote at Seltso pointing to Village#Slavic countries if you wish. Does that sound OK? Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 12:10, 14 August 2017 (UTC)