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Talk:Sea Monsters (TV series)/GA1

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Reviewer: FunkMonk (talk · contribs) 05:18, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking on the review! This was my favourite of the Walking with... franchise so I had to do it :) Ichthyovenator (talk) 12:05, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, being under water really helps the CGI too, as 3D animation that takes place under water usually looks more natural, because it is harder to get weight and texture to look right on land in clear light... FunkMonk (talk) 20:09, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Definitely, I still think much of the CGI holds up but maybe that's the nostalgia talking :) Ichthyovenator (talk) 00:08, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • At first glance, I'm a bit puzzled by the two sections Critical response and Criticism. Maybe the former should be called "Reviews" to distinguish them in a clearer way, now the titles could be interchangeable.
Yeah, changed "Critical response" to "Reviews". On a side-note it would have been great to include more reviews here. The criticism section and the second review paints a quite negative picture and user reviews on sites like IMDB and Letterboxd, not to mention the awards it got, show that it appears to have been overall quite positively received. Couldn't find any more reviews that would be OK to cite so what can you do. Ichthyovenator (talk) 12:05, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, you mention it also went by other titles, perhaps reviews can be searched under those? I took a look, but no, not even Metacritic has anything... FunkMonk (talk) 20:09, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, couldn't find anything for "Chased by Sea Monsters" either. I tried looking around sites with archived newspapers too but it was difficult to find anything and even if anything would be found, it's unlikely to be online. I know the Radio Times ran some sort of article on the series (but if it was a review I don't know) as per this, but I can't find anything of it online. Ichthyovenator (talk) 00:08, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Cover of an Indonesian DVD release" What makes it particularly Indonesian? Looks like the standard cover.
This is also an example of stuff that could be explained in the article if there were enough reliable sources to use. Sea Monsters wasn't released on DVD in the UK at the time of its original run; the only time it has been released in the UK thus far was in 2015 under the title Jurassic: Monsters of the Deep (with one of the worst cover designs I've ever seen). The DVD cover used in the article is from a 2004 Indonesian DVD (here it is on Amazon, note that it's region 3) that thankfully has an english-language cover. There were also 2004 DVD releases in Denmark, Denmark and the rest of Scandinavia and Germany as well as an American VHS and a 2008 American DVD. I think the Indonesian cover looks the best and I thought it needed specifying but if you think it's fine the country of origin could be left out. The DVD shenanigans could make for an interesting "Home media release" section or something of that sort but there are virtually no reliable sources to use. That it was released on DVD under the title Jurassic: Monsters of the Deep in 2015 could be backed up by this but it feels a bit pointless to include if none of the other stuff is also included. The new DVD title isn't some sort of new official name since the series was released on Netflix in 2019 under its original name. Ichthyovenator (talk) 12:05, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Wow, what the hell was going on with that UK cover... Hmmm, I guess for example Amazon entries can't be used as sources? What do other articles do when sourcing home media releases? Seems very odd that only the Indonesian version would have that cover with English text, I could have sworn I saw it on Amazon UK or US with that cover too? Well, I guess it's fine as is... FunkMonk (talk) 20:09, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Some appear to use Amazon as a source, such as Breaking Bad (season 1), but they're not GA so I'm not sure if that's fine. I can't find anything about it in the MOS. If using Amazon as a source would be fine I could write a proper "home media release" section. The Indonesian DVD is (as linked) on the US Amazon site (why I don't know) so maybe that's how you saw it. Ichthyovenator (talk) 00:08, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmm, I think this is worth asking about somewhere, perhaps at the community portal?[1]? Such a section could be neat. FunkMonk (talk) 07:44, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I've asked at the help desk so gonna have to wait and see what they respond. Ichthyovenator (talk) 22:50, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I don't really understand how to proceed based on the response, but maybe it's safest to just not add anything? Ichthyovenator (talk) 23:14, 27 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, yeah, doesn't look so promising, maybe something will come up later... FunkMonk (talk) 23:19, 27 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Whereas both of the previous specials took place on land and were confined to a single setting" Perhaps worth stating that the previous WWD/B series did have episodes taking place in the sea?
I've added a note but I'm not convinced I did so in the best way possible, so see what you think. Ichthyovenator (talk) 23:14, 27 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Looks ok to me. FunkMonk (talk) 23:19, 27 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • And if there are any connections worth mentioning with the previous sea episodes, of course if they are stated in the sources? Some of the same creatures are featured, and I wonder if they reused old animations etc.
Yeah, the designs for creatures that appeared earlier (most prominently Basilosaurus) were definitely reused, but I'm unsure if props or left-over animations were re-used as well. As you've probably gathered, finding sources to use in this article was quite difficult in the first place so I don't expect to find much but I'll have a look around. Ichthyovenator (talk) 12:05, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing about the making of in the companion book? And I don't recall if there was a making of documentary on the DVD, but I guess not? FunkMonk (talk) 20:09, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I don't actually have the companion book (I managed to read part of Marven's foreword through using the Web Archive on the book's Amazon site) but most of it seems to be a recounting of what happens in the series, with little behind the scenes info. Depending on the DVD, it appears that interviews with Tim Haines and Jasper James were included (it says so on the back of the Indonesian DVD on Amazon) that might be useful. I've got this DVD which doesn't have any bonus features at all so I can't check those. Ichthyovenator (talk) 00:08, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I looked at the back of my Danish DVD, doesn't seem to have any extras either... Might be good getting or borrowing the book if you ever want to take the article further. FunkMonk (talk) 07:44, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I kinda want the book anyway so if I take this further later on I will definitely wait until I can have a proper look at through the book. Ichthyovenator (talk) 22:50, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Jasper James would only seem to need one link in the infobox?
Yeah, fixed. Ichthyovenator (talk) 00:08, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "sees time-travelling zoologist Nigel Marven travelling back in time" A bit repetitive with the double "travelling", how about just "travel back in time" at the second time?
Done. Ichthyovenator (talk) 00:08, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The titular prehistoric "sea monsters" Link sea monster?
Linked. Ichthyovenator (talk) 00:08, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "include the Giant Orthocone" Why capitalised, and shouldn't the scientific name be stated, as you do with the other animals listed after?
It was capitalised in this way on the Sea Monsters site, but yeah it probably shouldn't be, fixed. It's never identified as anything else than a "giant orthocone" in the series (whereas the other animals are identified with their scientific names). If you think that would be fine, I could cite The Complete Guide to Prehistoric Life, where it is identified as (misspelled) Cameraceras. Ichthyovenator (talk) 00:08, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I think it would be fine to use that book, since it's the official companion to the series. FunkMonk (talk) 07:44, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Added with reference to the book, I added the name inside parantheses after "giant orthocone" since I figured that would be less confusing for someone who have just watched the series? Maybe that's unnecessary? Ichthyovenator (talk) 22:50, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good to me! FunkMonk (talk) 23:07, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Marven's presence also serves to provide a sense of scale and dread throughout the series" And drama, surely? Depends on what the source say, of course.
You're right of course but the source only says scale and dread. Ichthyovenator (talk) 00:08, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • " including 17-metre (56 ft) giant mosasaurs" Likewise, why not mention the genus name here?
Like with the orthocone, the mosasaurs are just called "giant mosasaurs" in the series itself. The Complete Guide to Prehistoric Life says Tylosaurus so if that can be cited, the name could be added. Ichthyovenator (talk) 00:08, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, as above, I think that would be fine. FunkMonk (talk) 07:44, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Done as with the orthocone. Ichthyovenator (talk) 22:50, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link animatronics?
Linked. Ichthyovenator (talk) 00:08, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • You don't mention who did the CGI, I assume it was Framestore again? This article seems to confirm it, and has a bit of info on production:[2]
Yeah it's Framestore. Added this and added the info from this article. Ichthyovenator (talk) 00:08, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Here are some sources I found on Google Scholar, the first seems to specifically mention Sea Monsters, while the others might be more general.[3][4][5] Some of it might be useful, and if you want to one day tackle the original WWD as well, it seems there are a lot of stuff on Google Scholar...
Yeah, I came across the first one while looking for sources, but I don't have access to any of those so I can't check if they contain anything useful :/ If I get to the original WWD I'll definitely have a chech through Google Scholar, yes :) Ichthyovenator (talk) 00:08, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have them both now, I can email them to you if you want (it looks like you have disabled Wikipedia email, though). Only the first one covers Sea Monsters specifically. FunkMonk (talk) 07:44, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
How does one enable Wikipedia email? Ichthyovenator (talk) 22:50, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
If you go to preferences at the top right, at the bottom of User profile you can tick "Allow other users to email me". FunkMonk (talk) 23:07, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Email should be enabled now. Ichthyovenator (talk) 23:14, 27 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Cool, I've sent youa mail, when you reply to it I'll have your email and then I can attach the PDFs. FunkMonk (talk) 23:19, 27 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I've added a sentence based on Campbell (2016), the other sources (and the rest of that source) are also very useful but I think they can be used for a lot more in the articles on Walking with Dinosaurs and on the whole series. Ichthyovenator (talk) 23:58, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is a tiny bit of information about the New Zealand shoot here[6], not sure if it's of any use.
Yeah, this is the page that's cited in the article for there being a New Zealand shoot. Not sure what else to add from it as I don't quite understand the last sentence in it. Ichthyovenator (talk) 00:08, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Very strange coincidence that the two only reviewers mentioned appear to be brothers!
Oh my god I didn't even notice that! Very strange indeed; interesting that their opinions are so polarised. Ichthyovenator (talk) 00:08, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Hoggart also believed the inclusion of a presenter in the previous series Walking with Caveme" Not sure what's meant here, I don't recall there being a human presenter other than the narrator in the series, or am I getting the meaning wrong?
Robert Winston was a presenter in the series (though not nearly as hands-on as Marven). Here he is chilling close to the Neanderthals. Ichthyovenator (talk) 00:08, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Haha, I own the DVD, but I completely forgot there was a guy in it! FunkMonk (talk) 07:44, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Should the narrator be named in he article body as well?
Yes, added with a source. Ichthyovenator (talk) 00:08, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Could be cool if we could get photos from the exhibition...
Yeah, the only photo I've found from it is this one which doesn't show much (but it's a full-scale Ophthalmosaurus model so I imagine the supposed Liopleurodon and Leedsichthys stuff would have been pretty cool to see). Ichthyovenator (talk) 00:08, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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