Talk:Scrooged

Scrooged has been listed as one of the Media and drama good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: December 21, 2018. (Reviewed version).

Film: Canadian / American

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Bill Murray's pay

I remember hearing that Bill Murray was upset because he wasn't paid much for this film and it carried over into Ghostbusters 2, there was some kind of dispute, anyone know anything about it? The snare (talk) 20:10, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Trivia items

I have integrated many of the trivia items and deleted a few very minor ones. If anyone wants to try to integrate any of these remaining 4, they are welcome. Invertzoo (talk) 13:30, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The film's closing theme song, "Put a Little Love in Your Heart", written in 1968 by Jackie DeShannon, was performed by Al Green with Annie Lennox.
The legend "Dick + Lauren" can be seen "carved" into a tree as part of the set decoration for the 1971 Frisbee the Dog children's show. This is a reference to the marriage of director Richard Donner and his wife, producer Lauren Schuler-Donner.
Composer Danny Elfman's score was extensively edited and dialed down in the final release, and left off the resulting soundtrack album entirely. An eight-minute suite from the film is available as part of his Music for a Darkened Theatre compilation. In the liner notes for the album, Elfman described the score as "one of life's bitter pills".
A 3D Paramount Pictures logo was introduced at the beginning of this film but wasn't seen in future Paramount Pictures releases. However, other alterations of the famous Paramount logo can be seen in Raiders of the Lost Ark and Coming To America.

Character comparisons

I removed the following from the article and bring it here for discussion:

Most of the characters in the movie represent characters in Dickens' A Christmas Carol. Frank Cross is Ebenezer Scrooge and his brother James is Scrooge's nephew Fred. Elliot Loudermilk (Bobcat Goldthwait) is a timid yesman who is fired, and transforms into a deranged alcoholic. He represents the orphan boy that Scrooge accosts early in the story, then solicits help from to spread good cheer once he reforms. Frank's assistant Grace represents Bob Cratchit. Grace's son, who is withdrawn/autistic, is Tiny Tim. Lew Hayward, Frank's former boss, is Jacob Marley. Herman and his fellow indigents are the "portly gentlemen" who are collecting for charity and are refused financial help. Claire is Scrooge's former fiancée, Belle. The three ghosts have the same names. The Ghost of Christmas Past is a stereotypical loudmouthed New York cab driver with a Staten Island accent. The Ghost of Christmas Future appears as the grim reaper, with a TV screen for a face. The Ghost of Christmas Present is a campier female version of the ghost in the original story with a penchant for violence. There are other key characters that are in Scrooged but do not really represent anyone in the original story, such as Preston Rhinelander (Robert Mitchum), CEO of the company that owns Frank's network. He continually makes inane requests, such as including more household pets on Television broadcasts. Brice Cummings (John Glover), who also has no counterpart in the original story, is Frank's slimy, opportunistic assistant who is hired by Rhinelander (to Frank's dismay) and is after Frank's job.

This is entirely OR and, thus, is not acceptable. Many of these comparisons and parallels are probably correct, and intentional, but this is a lot of information to have in the article with no references. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 04:43, 2 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

German title not relevant?

Why is the German title not relevant next to all the titles in other languages, with another reference to the fact they all relate to "ghosts" in order to market the film in relation to Ghostbusters? It was also called "unsourced" by the remover. None of the other titles is sourced, and if you want a source for this one, just look at the German version of this article, which also mentions that its German title is a quote from Goethe's The Sorcerer's Apprentice. Also see the linked article about Goethe's poem which contains the fact that the phrase "die Geister, die ich rief" from it, used as the German title for Scrooged, has since Goethe's days passed into common usage in German. --79.193.42.138 (talk) 23:09, 5 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Length of plot summary

It was 814 words. Now attempting to get it down to under 700 words. Invertzoo (talk) 13:17, 16 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Update: Now it is 635 words. Invertzoo (talk) 13:32, 16 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Cast images

How are images of the two of the actors, from 30 years after the film was released, relevant? How do they illustrate the subject of the article? I'd really like to know. ---The Old Jacobite_{The '45} 16:08, 4 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

They're pictures of two main cast members to help illustrate the article. Like a thousand other articles. I like working with you Jacobite but I'm getting pretty fed up with your attitude regarding "my way or the highway". Darkwarriorblake / SEXY ACTION TALK PAGE! 16:11, 4 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I can't say 100% if they're needed, but they are free content that can be used to improve the visuals of this article which is image-lite. And we're unfortunate that this film was made before ready access to digital photograhy and photosharing that most modern films have at their release; we can't expect free images of the actors at the time the film was released; photos today are all we have. So if this page is aching for images if it goes to GA/FA, there's no issue with using those images to help make it visually more appealing. --Masem (t) 16:13, 4 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I don't find them illustrative of much of anything other than the actors have aged. I'm not so opposed that I'll remove them, but I really don't think they're all that useful. As for my attitude, DWB, I'm sorry you see it that way, but that's never been my thinking, not since the time I started here. If that's how it comes across, I really am sorry. ---The Old Jacobite_{The '45} 00:53, 5 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

As Masem said, contemporary images aren't available, or if they are they aren't available for free use. Occasionally those photos do exist and I add them, then people repeatedly replace them with more updated images for some reason, so even if I added contemporary images it wouldn't necessary last. I'd also argue that the images, while more recent, are fairly reflective of how both looked at the time, both have aged pretty well. Articles that are just blocks of text or lists are not very aesthetically pleasing or as attractive to some readers so having images to illustrate something or enhance an area is not a negative, and here, alongside the poster, we have three primary cast members for people to identify their characters/actors without going to a secondary article and it enhances the layout of the article from an aesthetic standpoint. It's not a guideline to have them, but it's not a guideline not to have them either. As for your attitude, I may have used the wrong term there and I apologise. I just know that you removed cast content at Scarface and when I put it back you reverted me, and I let it go as I did not want to get into a conflict with you, but then doing it at Die Hard and here just rubbed me the wrong way. Darkwarriorblake / SEXY ACTION TALK PAGE! 10:51, 5 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Scrooged/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: 3E1I5S8B9RF7 (talk · contribs) 12:45, 18 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by 3E1I5S8B9RF7:

A very good article. Well written. I just have a few questions:

Casting: "Donner and Murray said that Kane would sometimes experience long crying periods during filming, citing frustration". Why was she crying? What happened?

Home Media: "Although Paramount promoted the "Yule Love It!" edition with images of a custom DVD case and a retail price as late as September that year, it missed its release date and it remains unreleased". Any info on what happened? Why did it remain unreleased?

Release: "The Washington Post's Joe Brown said that while it was not a good movie". Somewhat confusing, what did he mean?

Awards: "Danny Elfman's score won a BMI Award". No citation is given.

Legacy: "Johansen's prominent role in the film sent his New York Dolls bandmate Arthur Kane into a jealous rage after seeing Scrooged on TV, resulting in him beating his wife before attempting suicide by jumping from a third story window." Somewhat confusing wording, I didn't understand what the sentence is saying.--3E1I5S8B9RF7 (talk) 13:43, 18 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for starting this 3E1I5SB9RF7 (I didn't copy/paste that). I have been busy but will address your notes tomorrow before getting back to you! Darkwarriorblake / SEXY ACTION TALK PAGE! 01:02, 20 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Casting: "Donner and Murray said that Kane would sometimes experience long crying periods during filming, citing frustration". Why was she crying? What happened?

It's difficult to say for sure, the exact quote is "Worse yet, Frank Cross evolved into a physically demanding role when Murray began sharing scenes with Carol Kane. As the Ghost of Christmas Present, Kane punched, pinched and pummeled Murray frequently. The work frustrated the emotional actress, who, according to both Murray and Donner, melted into 20-minute-long crying jags at inopportune moments. As painful as the role was for Kane, Murray suffered more for him art. "There's a piece of skin the connects your lip with your gums and it was really pulled away," recalls Murray of one encounter with Kane. "She really hurt me, but it was my idea to be physical and it was her idea just to hit me as opposed to pulling the punches." It doesn't elbaorate further, though I've slightly re-wrote that line to try and clarify that it is "frustration" as the cause.

Home Media: "Although Paramount promoted the "Yule Love It!" edition with images of a custom DVD case and a retail price as late as September that year, it missed its release date and it remains unreleased". Any info on what happened? Why did it remain unreleased?

Sadly not that I can find. I've added a line that says the reason is unknown, I can find mention that Murray maybe blocked it but that info is from wordpress blogs that I can't use here.

Release: "The Washington Post's Joe Brown said that while it was not a good movie". Somewhat confusing, what did he mean?

Re-worded a little "Joe Brown said that it was a "sprawling mess", but that he liked it."

Awards: "Danny Elfman's score won a BMI Award". No citation is given.

Removed this as I cannot source it.

Legacy: "Johansen's prominent role in the film sent his New York Dolls bandmate Arthur Kane into a jealous rage after seeing Scrooged on TV, resulting in him beating his wife before attempting suicide by jumping from a third story window." Somewhat confusing wording, I didn't understand what the sentence is saying.

Re-wrote this a little. Darkwarriorblake / SEXY ACTION TALK PAGE! 00:06, 21 December 2018

(UTC)

So, he saw his bandmate on TV... playing a role that was filmed three years ago... And his reaction was to beat his wife? And try jumping from the window? Still weird, but hey, we cannot understand everyone.--3E1I5S8B9RF7 (talk) 10:01, 21 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

He was apparently a depressed drunk. Darkwarriorblake / SEXY ACTION TALK PAGE! 00:10, 22 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Conclusion

I think the article meets the GA criteria. I'm promoting it, accordingly.--3E1I5S8B9RF7 (talk) 10:01, 21 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV ()

3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant ()

Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Thanks very much 3E1I5S8B9RF7, just in time for Xmas! Darkwarriorblake / SEXY ACTION TALK PAGE! 00:10, 22 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]