Talk:Scottish Rite

Degree and Rank

The degree of Master Mason is canonically the highest degree to which a mason can attain. The highest rank is clearly that of Grand Master. Here we can only talk authoritatively about Anglo-American lodges that don't have a separate degree of "Installed Master", which in any case is a degree in all but name in all lodges with an inner working, and clearly higher that a Master Mason. In the UGLE, MMs are quietly told that Royal Arch membership is almost essential if they wish to take an active role in the organisation above lodge level, so even the "no degree higher" bit is mere words, with a purely symbolic meaning that only makes sense to masons in the right jurisdictions. The first paragraph in Degree Structure has to go. Fiddlersmouth (talk) 00:03, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

UGLE has never quite figured out where the Royal Arch belongs. It's Constitutions state that Masonry "consists of three degrees and no more, viz. those of the Entered Apprentice, the Fellow Craft, and the Master Mason including the Supreme Order of the Holy Royal Arch." One interpretation of that provision is that UGLE does not consider the Royal Arch to be "higher" than Master Mason... UGLE considers the HRA to be part of the Master Mason degree (albeit a part that is conferred by a separate body). Hence the feeling that one should take the Royal Arch if one wishes to be considered for more Provincial or National GL offices... by taking it you are "completing" your third degree.

None of which has any baring on the Scottish Rite degrees. These are considered "extra" and are in no way "higher". Blueboar (talk) 19:19, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

You're missing the point. Rank and degree are NOT the same - the highest rank is NOT master mason, even in blue lodge, where the humble MM is outranked by any installed/past master. The highest degree is said to be MM, BUT masons sticking at MM are not going to be considered for major roles within their Grand lodge, so it's a meaningless truism only understood by masons. Further, jurisdictions such as the Droit Humain hang their whole organisational structure on the Scottish Rite hierarchy, making the MM assertion doubly meaningless.

The article clearly states that MM is the highest Rank within masonry. That is not true at any level. Fiddlersmouth (talk) 23:10, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

This article is concerning Scottish Rite Freemasonry and therefore should speak only towards the Scottish Rite position on the matter. Blueboar is right. Jersey John (talk) 16:23, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

Also, despite the name, the A&ASR is comparatively rarely practised in Scotland. Blue Lodge (which includes the Mark) is the setting for the Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft and Master Mason degrees. Royal Arch (which also includes the Mark, rather confusingly) is administered entirely separately. Participation in "The 18th" is by invitation only.

Nuttyskin (talk) 03:04, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Citation Error

The citation [55] for the following statement doesn't make sense: "In England and Wales, whose Supreme Council was warranted by that of the Northern Jurisdiction of the USA (in 1845),[55] ..." Here's what the citation reads: " "Property Market in the South East - Bedsfordshire Property Times". www.beds-freemasonry.org.uk. Archived from the original on 22 August 2017. Retrieved 28 April 2018." That link is now dead, but the main url seems to be some real-estate website not affiliated with Masonry. Mpaniello (talk) 15:12, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

NY Scottish Rite Craft Lodge

New York City's 10th Masonic District is composed of 16 lodges, all of which practice the SR versions of the Craft rituals. I've attended one of them, La Fraternidad #387, in October of 2019. However, I can't find any online citation which states this explicitly, though I know this to be true and anybody from that district or familiar with it would attest to it. The 10th-District site is: https://district-26-ny.ourlodgepage.com/ Mpaniello (talk) 20:57, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

I think some needs to write an article on the SR Craft lodges of New York (and New Orleans I hear.) Jjazz76 (talk) 17:07, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

I'm in one of the New Orleans SR lodges, Cervantes No. 5, and I think that would be a great idea. However, I'm not the one to write it. There's a guy in my lodge who's a real Masonic historian, especially when it comes to SR Craft lodges, who'd be the natural choice. I'll ask him, see what he says. Mpaniello (talk) 17:22, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Haha - No for sure. I get it. So many interesting topics out there to write about and not enough time to write about them all!

Maybe something I will work on when I have the free time. Jjazz76 (talk) 19:34, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

• Unfortunately, If there are no sources, we can’t include it in Wikipedia. Consider writing something for the “Empire State Mason”, or the “American Lodge of Research” instead (and then we might be able to use those publications as a source). Blueboar (talk) 17:24, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

  I mean a sourced article, sorry for not making that clearer. He's already written a good bit on the subject at a scholarly level, just not for general publication (though iirc he has written for a Masonic publication or two). His work however cites publicly available sources. There's also another local SR historian, Michael Poll, who's written quite a few books and articles on the subject and has lectured pretty extensively around the country and maybe even a couple spots overseas. He has a publishing company called Cornerstone Publishers with lots of literature on the subject if you're interested. Mpaniello (talk) 17:38, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

  Just looking back at this. Yes - Michael Poll does some great work with Masonic Publishing. Who is the other "he" that you reference here who has " already written a good bit on the subject at a scholarly level, just not for general publication." Jjazz76 (talk) 04:27, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

  Editing Wikipedia does help in finding places that Masonic articles need to be written, that is for sure. Jjazz76 (talk) 19:35, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

US Not the Sole Exception

This statement isn't correct:

"It is the most practiced Rite in the world thus most Master Masons are made thought the Scottish Rite system with the exception of the United States of America where most Lodges do not work the first three degrees in the Scottish Rite but rather join after the attainment of the third degree in their own systems."

The US is not the sole exception, pretty much the entire English-speaking world is the exception. Most US lodges use the so-call York Rite versions of the Craft rituals, which are based on and most resemble English rituals (ie Preston-Webb). Scotland and Ireland have their own constitutions, but they don't practice the SR Craft degrees, neither do Canada, Australia, or New Zealand (though there is one SR Craft lodge in Australia from what I've read). I'm mentioning it instead of making a simple substitution of terms because I think the paragraph might need to be more thoroughly rewritten. Mpaniello (talk) 00:38, 11 November 2024 (UTC)