Talk:Scarborough

Most commonly referred to when no context given

I have consulted the talk page that CyberSach referred me to, and there's nothing there that substantiates the claim that Scarborough, North Yorshire is the Scarborough one is most likely to refer to when one says "Scarborough" without context. I'm not even sure what "mentioning 'Scarborough' without context" would even mean--every utterance or written word has context, deriving from what is known about the speaker, where and when the word is mentioned, etc. If the claim is not meaningless, it is certainly unverifiable, and if someone were to try to verify it (by recording written and verbal communication all over the world and counting the number of instances of "Scarborough" that refer to the Yorkshire one versus the Ontario one, etc.), it's far from certain which Scarborough would come out on top. I have thus tagged the statement with a {{verify source}} tag. --Atemperman 17:17, 24 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I expect you've read the requested move discussion, as well as the exchange at User talk:CyberSach etc. I've not a lot to add, except to say that the last time somebody wanted a source here, I supplied one, but I can't find one in this case. Of course, a context-free search on Google does supply Scarborough, N Yorks before others. I notice that since I last googled for Scarborough, the wiki page on Scarborough, Ontario has shot up the ranking. — mholland 15:15, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I guess I should chip in here since my talk page is used as a backgrounder. I have been to three of the "Scarborough"s listed on this page, but don't live near any of them. The consensus at the time of the article move was that the English town is proportionately more well known than population comparison alone would suggest, and that this page should have some indication for readers who find it by either search or following an ambiguous link that if they don't know which one was intended from the context of whence they came, there is a higher probability that North Yorkshire is their intended target. I don't care how this is represented on the page, as long as it's done in words, not by bold or italic text. --Scott Davis ^Talk 21:42, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I vaguely recall reading from a discussion on this that either a majority or a substantial plurality of WP links to an ambiguous "Scarborough" are to the English town, in which case I agree that there should be some sort of indication in the disambiguation page that says as much. This is a different question, however, from what people are likely to be looking for when they type "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarborough" into their URL bar. To assert that the English town is the most searched-for one is just as unverifiable as are the claims that the most well known or the most often talked-about Scarborough is the English town. I'm going to remove the {{verify source}} tag, then, and replace its sentence with one that makes the more limited, verifiable claim that a plurality of links to "Scarborough" should point to the English town.--Atemperman 13:37, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I can see why you changed it, but the wording seemed messy and having it where it is means you won't miss it. I think the 'without context' part is fine also, especially with 12 out of the first 20 results to a google search for 'Scarborough' directing you to information about Scarborough, North Yorkshire. Stev17 14:51, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The wording as it stands is not substantiated by seeing what the top Google hits for the query "Scarborough" are. In any case, using Google just further illustrates my point that the "without context" bit is meaningless, as you get different results for google.ca, google.com, and google.co.uk (not surprisingly, the N Yorks town has two more top-20 hits on google.co.uk than it does on google.ca, and the Ontario location has one more such hit on google.ca than it does on google.co.uk). Furthermore, you can monkey with the Google results by arbitrarily cutting things off at 10 or 20 or 40 or whatever results. A search for "Scarborough" on google.com gives in the top 10 two hits for the ON Scarborough, and only one for the N Yorks town Scarborough, unless you count the building society named after the town. On google.ca, "Scarborough" gets, in the top forty hits, seven hits for the ON one and nine hits for the N Yorks town, hardly a decisive victory for the latter.

Disambiguation pages are, to new users, inherently messy at first. Moreover, it's easy to write a sentence that's clear if you don't worry about whether it's actually verifiable and means something. I think a slightly messier sentence that is accurate and meaningful is better than a sentence that is either meaningless or pure speculation. Of course, if anyone can come up with a way to capture the content of the version I wrote but is clearer, then that would be the best solution of all.--Atemperman 00:01, 2 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Why not put:

Scarborough, North Yorkshire - The longest settled city named Scarborough

Or something to that effect? None of the other Scarborough's have been in existence nearly as long as the one in the UK. Over here in the US an unqualified use of the word Scarborough is more likely in reference to Joe Scarborough or Elizabeth Ann Scarborough than a city with a population of 50k in UK. --Bobblehead 00:17, 2 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Americans must have been seriously confused by Scarborough Fair, then! -- Ian Dalziel 17:59, 2 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is not a city, and Atemperman I really don't see how you get those results, type "Scarborough" into google.com and you get

1. Scarborough.co.uk
3. Scarborough.gov.uk
7. www.scarboroughbs.co.uk (which is not just named after the N yorks town, but based there)
8. www.discoveryorkshirecoast.com/scarborough_welcome.asp
9. www.scarboroughtoday.co.uk

All of which (with the possible exception of the building society) relate solely to the Yorkshire Scarborough, how do you see only one result?

Again, I searched Scarborough on google.ca to check your results of the top 40 and stopped after 20 because I had already found 9 results for Scarborough, North Yorkshire, two more than you said were in the top 40. I carried on and here are all the links with info relating to Scarborough, North Yorkshire:

1. www.scarborough.gov.uk - The Scarborough (UK) Borough Council Home
2. www.scarborough.co.uk - A tourist information site about Scarborough (UK)
3. www.discoveryorkshirecoast.com/scarborough_welcome.asp - A site for tourists visting Scarborough (UK)
4. www.scarboroughtoday.co.uk - Local news for Scarborough (UK)
5. www.yorkshire-coast.co.uk/scarb/index.htm - Another site for Tourists.
6. www.e-sbc.co.uk - A second Scarborough Borough Council link.
7. www.scarborougheveningnews.co.uk - The local newspaper
8. www.scarboroughfc.com - The local football club (UK)
9. www.virtualscarborough.co.uk - A virtual tour of the UK town.
10. www.vrscarborough.co.uk - Another link to the virtual tour
11. www.scarborocamra.org.uk - A history of local pubs serving real ale.
12. www.hull.ac.uk/scarborough/ - The Scarborough campus of Hull university
13. www.geodata.co.uk/sbc/ - The wave bouy and tide guage homepage for Scarborough (UK)
14. www.a1surf.com/surfcheck-scarborough.html - Local surf information

Even if the results were only 9-7 in favour of Scarborough, North Yorkshire then it does seem to be clear that without context the Yorkshire town is what is probably reffered to as even on the Canadian based google, results for it are still higher! Of course, we can never know comprehensively what everyone reffers to when they type in "Scarborough" by itself, but these results give quite a case to it being the Yorkshire town. Stev17 11:13, 2 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Scarborough (Disambiguation)" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Scarborough (Disambiguation) and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 August 24#Scarborough (Disambiguation) until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Steel1943 (talk) 15:18, 24 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]