Talk:Say So/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions about Say So. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Say So who sampled?

Hi, I open this discussion because there is a complete chaos on this topic. Most of the reviews on Say So speak of sampling from Chic's "Good Times", while other sources are emerging that speak of interpolation of the melody of Saint Pepsi's "Fiona Coyne" (on the latter there is also a dispute between the two singers). In your opinion which of the two is more reliable?--Lrt000 (talk) 13:57, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

According to the official Genius website, the song does indeed sample "Good Times," and the sourcing emerging that Tyson Trax (Dr. Luke) interpolated the melody of "Fiona Coyne" come from Saint Pepsi himself. Camwin05 (talk) 03:13, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

comes whoops Camwin05 (talk) 03:29, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Say So and Twitter

Sound the article include a part about Doja Cat's Twitter?

If you don't know what's happening/what heppened, here's a rundown:

On May 1, the remix drops.
On May 5, Doja Cat tweeted about flashing her breasts if the song hits #1: "If say so hits #1 I’ll show you guys my boobs really hard", most likely joking about doing so.
- On the 7th, she tweeted "These boobs ain’t gonna show themselves you guys. Stream say so !!!!!!!"
On May 11, the remix hits the Billboard Hot 100, peaking at the No. 1 position. This prompts many people to ask about the flashing.
She then admits that she would not show her breasts on a livestream on Instagram. (even saying, "We just made history... and I'm still not gonna show you my boobs.")

Twitter users resurrected the #dojacatisoverparty hashtag (which were mostly supportive or joking, or what I presume to be jokes).

Should we put this in the article, because the tweets might have prompted more people to stream the song, or is it irrelevant since it already had popularity? reppop^talk 07:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Huge Dr. Luke photo

Its inclusion is a little less undue since the Associated Press reported on it too, I guess. But is there any need for the huge quote in the caption? It's making the picture too big, and protrude into more than half of the commercial performance section. Considering Luke is a highly controversial figure, this seems like.. a choice. Cornerstonepicker, do you agree to at least removing the hefty AP quote? Because I'm taking this to RfC otherwise.--N Ø 04:15, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Well, it's a topic touched by several relevant sources. I guess the 'huge' quote can go in the section as a text (?) Cornerstonepicker (talk) 00:14, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Nicki Minaj credit removed from Billboard

As of now, Billboard has removed Nicki Minaj's credit from the chart dating May 16, 2020 (aka the week it went #1): https://www.billboard.com/charts/hot-100

Say So has also been removed from Nicki Minaj's Billboard Chart history: https://www.billboard.com/music/nicki-minaj — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.57.118.204 (talk) 17:56, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Say So/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: GhostRiver (talk · contribs) 19:16, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

I'll be taking a look at this! — Ghost River 19:16, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV ()

3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant ()

Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Infobox and lede

Link the first instance of "Single" to Single (music)
Delink "flirting" per MOS:OVERLINK
"whom she feels a connection with" → "with whom she feels a connection"
The note in the lede should have a citation
I believe certifications are from a publication rather than by in the current sentence construction
"To promote the song, Doja Cat performed it" → "To promote "Say So", Doja Cat performed the song"

Done Removed the footnote as a whole since it’s not vitally relevant to the lead. —cybertrip👽 ( 💬 • 📝) 09:14, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

Background

Recording and release

"also serves as" → "also served as"
Link Hot Pink for first instance in the body
Link "hit" to Hit song
Link the first instance of "single" to Single (music)

Done —cybertrip👽 ( 💬 • 📝) 09:14, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

Nicki Minaj remix

No comma after "remix of the song featuring Nicki Minaj"
"even before its initial announcement" → "preceding its official announcement"

Done —cybertrip👽 ( 💬 • 📝) 18:36, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Mixing

Link "engineer" to Audio engineer and "mixer" to Audio mixing (recorded music)
"for the mixing of" → "to mix"
"before it would officially be released only a few hours later." → "before its release only a few hours later"

Done —cybertrip👽 ( 💬 • 📝) 18:36, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Dr. Luke controversy

"using a pseudonym" → "under a pseudonym"
Period instead of colon after "opinions on the matter"
Comma after "Denise Warner argued", "Gab Ginsberg stated", and "while Andrew Unterberger opined"
After the first instance of his full name, just say "Unterberger"

Done —cybertrip👽 ( 💬 • 📝) 18:36, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Composition and lyrics

"and in the key of D major"
Comma after "retro"
""always perfect vocal performance."" → ""always perfect vocal performance"." per WP:LQ
"who you feel a connection with" → "with whom you feel a connection"
Don't love the phrasing of "which was ongoing at the time of her recording", especially since it's still ongoing, but I don't have a better idea for how to rephrase
""turning the song's disco pulse into a spitting trap beat."" → ""turning the song's disco pulse into a spitting trap beat"." per MOS:LQ

Done (+rephrased pandemic sentence) —cybertrip👽 ( 💬 • 📝) 19:41, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Critical reception

Solo version

""glistening off the ocean,"" → ""glistening off the ocean"," per MOS:LQ
""and a funky bassline."" → ""and a funky bassline"."
""tied together with Doja's always perfect vocal performance."" → ""tied together with Doja's always perfect vocal performance"."
""breathy vocals that recall early Donna Summer."" → ""breathy vocals that recall early Donna Summer"."
"2020 in music" → "the music of 2020"

Done —cybertrip👽 ( 💬 • 📝) 20:00, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Nicki Minaj remix

"while Jon Dolan of the same publication" → "while in the same publication, Jon Dolan"
The Post-it note comment feels slightly out of place as the one detracting comment in the middle of many flattering ones; not sure the best way to rearrange

Done (added post-it note comment to the end with "In a more negative review") —cybertrip👽 ( 💬 • 📝) 19:59, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Year-end lists

Good

Commercial performance

"where it moved up to" → "before moving up to"
"top 5 song" → "top-five song"
"2 billion" → "two billion"
"966%" → "966 percent" per MOS:PERCENT
Replace % with "percent" written out all the way through, per above
earlier that year If I'm not mistaken, "Say So" started charting in January, so it would be hard to be "earlier that year"

Done —cybertrip👽 ( 💬 • 📝) 20:06, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Music video

Background and release

"when it premiered alongside" → "premiering alongside"
Comma after "the day before, writing,"
"She said that while at the shoot," → "She said that, during the shoot,"

Done —cybertrip👽 ( 💬 • 📝) 20:18, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Synopsis and reception

No comma after "aqua-coloured eyeshadow"
Link "Blowout" to Blowout (hairstyle)
I don't think the word regalia needs to be quoted or linked
"On her arrival" → "Upon her arrival"

Done —cybertrip👽 ( 💬 • 📝) 20:18, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Accolades

Good – I had originally said that the NAACP Image Awards shouldn't be there since they were given to Doja as an artist, but the source seems to show that she was nominated for that song in particular

This is true. I think they accredited her work as an artist to "Say So". —cybertrip👽 ( 💬 • 📝) 20:20, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Live performances

Comma after "Shortly after the premiere of the song's music video"
Minecraft should be italicized as a video game title
""a fluffy pink slumber part with sparkling chiffon curtains and neon signs galore."" → ""a fluffy pink slumber part with sparkling chiffon curtains and neon signs galore"."
"slumber part" → "slumber party"
"sci-fi" → "science fiction"
Drop the "like" from "reptilian-like", as "reptilian" means "reptile-like"
Link Roxie Hart
I was going to suggest how to rephrase "however the matter was later cleared up", but I think it can be dropped entirely considering the next sentence basically explains that
"for the last time" → "for what she said would be the last time"
"and described it as" → "and described the performance as"

Done —cybertrip👽 ( 💬 • 📝) 20:28, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Cover versions

"song was recorded by Indonesian YouTuber singer Rainych Ran and was released" → "song recorded by Indonesian YouTuber singer Rainych Ran was released"
"suggested that she listen to the cover" → "suggested that she listened to it"
"She added a self-written rap"
""flirtatious and retro vibe."" → ""flirtatious and retro vibe"." per MOS:LQ

Done —cybertrip👽 ( 💬 • 📝) 20:28, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Impact

I don't know how I feel about this being called "Impact", which I associate with a larger impact on the pop culture landscape than cameo appearances in video games. Honestly, when I think "Impact" of this song, I think more about the TikTok stuff.

Changed to "In popular culture" —cybertrip👽 ( 💬 • 📝) 20:28, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Track listing

Good

Credits and personnel

"vocals" in "Nicki Minaj's Vocals" should be lowercase
"as Tyson Trax for Prescription Songs" should either be in parentheses or as a footnote

Done. Also applied lowercase to "recorded and mixed" on that Nicki line —cybertrip👽 ( 💬 • 📝) 20:28, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Charts

Good

Certifications

Good

Release history

Good

References

I'd prefer if non-tweets were used for the platinum and multi-platinum certifications; it looks like the RIAA page shows the dates of each certification if you hit "more details"

The tweets state that "Say So" is her first song to achieve multi-platinum certification, which I unfortunately couldn't find in any other reliable sources. —cybertrip👽 ( 💬 • 📝) 20:38, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

General comments

Images are properly licensed and relevant
No major stability concerns in the revision history
Apart from one paragraph, Copyvio score looks ok

Thank you for your patience! Putting on hold for now, feel free to ping me with questions and please let me know when you're finished. — Ghost River 15:30, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

@GhostRiver: Thank you so much for reviewing thus far! Unfortunately, I'm in the midst of my final exams and won't be able to make all the changes within the 7-day period. Could you perhaps please give me until 5 Dec to finish it off? If not, can we maybe do something to temporarily keep it dormant as I'd hate for it to be a fail. —cybertrip👽 ( 💬 • 📝) 10:51, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Cybertrip I'm always happy to leave GA noms open longer than one week as long as the nominator is in communication with me. December 5 it is. — Ghost River 13:57, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

@GhostRiver: Sorry for the delay. All done now! Thank you so much again for taking the time to do this. —cybertrip👽 ( 💬 • 📝) 20:40, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

@GhostRiver: Thought you should know that I've added new info about the recent Guinness World Record. Thanks —cybertrip👽 ( 💬 • 📝) 16:24, 15 December 2021 (UTC).

Cybertrip Thank you for your patience as I slog through final grading. Everything looks good now. — Ghost River 17:03, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

@GhostRiver: Thanks again for everything :) —cybertrip👽 ( 💬 • 📝) 16:24, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 10 March 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (non-admin closure) NW1223 <Howl at me•My hunts> 16:03, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

Say So (Doja Cat song) → Say So
Say So → Say So (disambiguation)

– WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. TL;DR: the Doja Cat song demonstrates more longstanding notability compared to other similarly named articles, based on page views, coverage on reliable sources, commercial performance, and critical reception. ‍ ‍ elias. 🧣 ‍ ‍ ^{💬reach out to me}
_{📝see my work} 07:48, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Songs has been notified of this discussion. ‍ ‍ elias. 🧣 ‍ ‍ ^{💬reach out to me}
_{📝see my work} 09:52, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Further explanation here

Currently, the DAB page for the term "Say So" has 4 entries, with 3 out of 4 having their own articles. One is about a Bent Knee album (released 2016), another is about a PJ Morton + JoJo song (released 2019), and the last a Doja Cat song (released 2020). All of these are music articles, and all of the records listed here were released, relatively, around the same time.

Doja Cat's "Say So" is clearly the primary topic by a long shot, so I think the "(Doja Cat song)" disambiguator is unnecessary. Going by the pageview comparisons (within the past month) (all time), the article for her single has garnered 23 times/30 times more visits compared to the other articles listed earlier, receiving ~96.13% of the pageviews.

Despite being the latest release out of the three of them, the page for 2020 "Say So" establishes long-term significance and notability to a degree that the Bent Knee album or the PJ Morton + JoJo song simply cannot reach, at least not in the foreseeable future. Doja's song featured in many "Best Songs of 2020" lists from many reliable sources that talk about music topics; it got nominated for 2 Grammy Awards in 2021; it won a Guinness World Record for being the "first female rap duo to reach No.1 on the US singles chart"; it received several platinum certifications in countries like Australia, Belgium, Mexico, New Zealand, the UK, and the US.

As for the Say So album, its article makes use of only 4 references (1) (2) (3) (4), all reviews, juuuust the bare minimum to establish any form of notability. Meanwhile, PJ Morton + JoJo's song uses ~17 references. Which is marginally better, but does not compare to the 320 references used for the Doja Cat song, which, apart from reviews, includes sources that talk about its popularity thanks to TikTok (here), discuss its remix featuring rapper Nicki Minaj (here), and criticise producer Dr. Luke's involvement on the track (here), among others.

Support Per the evidence provided in the nomination, there appears to be a clear primary topic when evaluating by usage, reader interest, and relative notability among the topics with this name.--Yaksar (let's chat) 09:04, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 01:32, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.