Talk:Saxon revolt of 1073–1075

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Merge and move

The current titles of three pages are somewhat arbitrary:

Saxon Rebellion (1073–75)
Great Saxon Revolt (1077–88)
Saxon Wars (772–804)

These terms are not consistently used in these ways by English sources. For instance, "Saxon Rebellion" could easily refer to one of the many campaigns of Charlemagne's wars or even to the "War of the Saxon Federates". Likewise, "Great Saxon Revolt" is rarely so capitalized in English sources and it often refers to the events of 1073–75.

The Oxford Encyclopedia of Medieval Warfare and Military Technology indexes "Saxon Wars (1073–88)" and "Saxon Wars (775–805)". I think an approach like this is best. The two articles on Henry IV's wars can be merged and the remaining two articles retitled with dates to disambiguate. "Saxon Rebellion" can be a dab page. Srnec (talk) 00:40, 12 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You raise some good points. I've done a bit of research which revealed that the most common name for the conflict of 772-804 is the "Saxon Wars" (2300 sources). "Saxon War" and "Saxon Uprising" are also quite common. A few sources call it the "Saxon Rebellion" and a handful call it the "Great Saxon Revolt". So "Saxon Wars" seems the most appropriate title for that one.

The most common name for the conflict of 1073-75 appears to be "Saxon Uprising", but "Saxon Rebellion" and "Saxon War" are also common. So we could change "Saxon Rebellion" to "Saxon Uprising", but that is also one of the common names for the 775-805 conflict, whereas "Saxon Rebellion" is used far less often for the latter and is therefore potentially less confusing.

The "Great Saxon Revolt" (GSR) seems to refer to a different conflict separated from the Saxon Rebellion by 2 years and led by Rudolf of Swabia. The only common denominators are Henry IV and the involvement of Saxony, but otherwise they appear unconnected. German Wiki doesn't have an article on the GSR; instead referring to the conflict between Henry IV and anti-king, Rudolf of Swabia. Dupuy and Dupuy's Encyclopedia of Military History refers to "a particularly violent Saxon revolt (1073-1075)" and the "Civil War in Germany (1077-1106)" in which "rebellious nobles elected Rudolph of Swabia to replace Henry". Kohn's Dictionary of Wars lists the GSR as part of the "German Civil War of 1077-1106" (incidentally along with three other "German Civil Wars": those of 1197-1214, 1314-1325 and 1400-1411). So I'm wondering whether "Great Saxon Revolt" should be expanded into a wider article called something like the German Civil War of 1077-1106. I think more research is needed on that one. --Bermicourt (talk) 20:30, 13 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've added the alternative names to the articles and will remove the merge tags for now. I think the main piece of work is to expand the "Great Saxon Revolt" into an article on the German Civil War of 1077-1106. Bermicourt (talk) 20:00, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]