Talk:Savile Row tailoring

Links need updating and general editing.

A number of links have needed updating. Some references are out-of-date and need attention. The article could do with smartening up.Richard Nowell (talk) 17:53, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

There is also a copious amount of repetition within the article. Information mainly, but also multiple wiki links. Some of the article seems somewhat biased to various newer concerns.Richard Nowell (talk) 12:27, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Some crucial citations are missing or the links are broken. Apart from that, updating is proceeding. Richard Nowell (talk) 13:05, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

A list of Savile Row tailors

Gieves & Hawkes Ltd., 1, Savile Row, London, W1S 3JR.

Kent & Curwen, 2, Savile Row, London, W1S 3PA

Kilgour Ltd., 5, Savile Row, London, W1S 3PD. - now closed

Bernard Weatherill, 5, Savile Row, London, W1S 3PD. - now also closed

Hardy Amies, 8, Savile Row, London, W1S 3PE.

Jasper Littman, 5th floor, 9, Savile Row, London, W1S 3PF.

Alexander McQueen, 9, Savile Row, London W1S 3PF. - now closed

John Lancaster, 9, Savile Row, London, W1S 3PF.

Comelie, 9-10, Savile Row, London, W1S 3PF.

Higgins & Brown, 9-10, Savile Row, London, W1S 3PF.

Henry Herbert Tailors, 9-10, Savile Row, London, W1S 3PF.

Katherine Maylin, 5th floor, 9-10 Savile Row, London, W1X 1AF

King & Allen, Holland & Sherry, 9-10, Savile Row, W1S 3PF

Manning & Manning, 9-10, Savile Row, London, W1S 3PF.

Nooshin, Holland and Sherry, 9-10 Savile Row, London, W1S 3PF

Dege & Skinner, 10, Savile Row, London, W1S 3PF.

Henry Huntsman & Sons Ltd., 11, Savile Row, London, W1S 3PS.

Steed, 12, Savile Row, London, W1S 3PQ.

Chittleborough & Morgan, 12, Savile Row, London, W1S 3PQ.

Castle Tailors, 12, Savile Row, London, W1S 3PR

Paul Jheeta Ltd., 12 (lower ground), Savile Row, London, W1S 3PQ.

Richard Anderson Ltd., 13, Savile Row, London, W1S 3N.

Stowers Bespoke Ltd., 13, Savile Row, London, W1S 3PH.

Steven Hitchcock, 13, Savile Row, London, W1S 3NE.

Martin Nicholls London Ltd., 13, Savile Row, London, W1S 3NE.

Hidalgo Bros., 13, Savile Row, London, W1S 3PH.

James Levett, 13, Savile Row, London, W1S 3NE.

Cad & The Dandy, 1st floor, 13, Savile Row, London W1S 3NE.

Stuart Lamprell, 14, Savile Row, London, W1S 3JN.

Henry Poole & Co., 15, Savile Row, London, W1S 3PJ.

Norton & Sons Ltd., 16, Savile Row, London, W1S 3PR.

Chester Barrie, 18-19, Savile Row, London, W1S 3PW.

Maurice Sedwell (Savile Row) Ltd., 19, Savile Row, London, W1S 3PP.

Welsh & Jefferies Ltd., 20, Savile Row, London, W1S 3PR.

Richard James, 29, Savile Row, London, W1S 3EY.

Ozwald Boateng, 30, Savile Row, London W1S 3PT.

Gary Anderson, 34-35, Savile Row, London W1S 3QA.

Spencer Hart, 36, Savile Row, London, W1S 3QB. - Closed 1st November 2014.

Davies & Son, 38, Savile Row, London, W1S 3QE.

Alexandre of London, 39, Savile Row, London, W1S 3QF. - closed; also was never a bespoke tailor

Clothsurgeon, 40, Savile Row, London, W1S 3QG.

William Hunt, 41, Savile Row, London, W1S 3QQ.

Richard Nowell (talk) 13:37, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Section Concerns- Can you give an example?

Can you give an example of what is meant by adding more sections? I've added some smaller sections to see if this is what is needed...Richard Nowell (talk) 13:10, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

I think you are on the right track but the article is too long and too detailed about individual firms IMHO. What about moving some of the firms to separate articles and summarising some of the content with a link to the company articles?

In addition, we seem to have more of a history of every tailoring firm in the street rather than a history of tailoring in the street. It needs a lot more synthesis I think. Philafrenzy (talk) 15:34, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Some of the companies do have their own articles. More articles could be made, but to what benefit? Some of the smaller companies have a long history, but that might not justify a whole article. I like it as it is because some of the smaller companies have their own history which is not often documented. Here it is. Why include some companies, but not others? As for the history of tailoring on SR, 'Further Reading' links to appropriate books that describe in detail SR's history. The article is up-to-date (which it wasn't four months ago) and represents SR in its entirety. A medium-size article that does not advertise any one company in a unique street. We could ask which of the companies don't want to be included? Richard Nowell (talk) 18:21, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Have started reducing the size of the article by removing unnecessary 'laser sections' (did not add much) and trimming 'external links' and 'see also'. Richard Nowell (talk) 18:54, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Lead and opinion

I removed a personal commentary about the GQ piece from the lead. However, I wonder if those two journalist opinions should be moved to a new reception section rather than featuring so prominently in the lead? Fences&Windows 19:48, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• RJ 03.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 15:38, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

October link removal and lack of references

There were many redundant links which I've removed or replaced. This has led to some sections being unreferenced. Some require re-writing e.g. Huntsman which is years out-of-date. Re. Huntsman - would it not be better to have a more general history of Huntsman? Effectively the part here only talks about the time since it was bought by Lagrange, and this would be better in the separate Huntsman section, with a more general overview of the whole of the company's history here?

Have also removed G&H and Kilgour from Future section as unfortunately they don't seem to have an obvious one at this time.Richard Nowell (talk) 08:25, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Should the Patrick Grant section also be removed from here, given that he no longer has a ready-to-wear company (suggesting to me that his comments that ready-to-wear based on Savile Row's history seems to have backfired...)? 2A02:C7F:DD04:9600:411D:C6AF:FFF3:FD75 (talk) 20:54, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

Should the link to Hong Kong tailoring also be removed? There are plenty of places throught the world where bespoke tailors can be found, so I don't see why Hong Kong alone should be mentioned? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7F:DD04:9600:7968:6819:4C68:C6B2 (talk) 22:42, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

I note new section on Arthur Sleep (shoemaker) and that there is already two lines on Gaziano & Girling, yet the title of the page is 'tailoring'. There are also other shops on the Row that are peripheral to tailoring - should these also be added, or should the page become a repository for tailoring information (within the radius rather than specifically on) on what might perhaps better be described as "West End" tailoring? After all, this has a discrete history that is world-famous and seems, to me, to be worth keeping as a whole rather than just listing shops because they 'happen' to be on Savile Row?

It seems harsh to delete the shoemakers Arthur Sleep and Gaziano & Girling which are after all businesses making bespoke clothing items. Perhaps SR could become a centre for bespoke shoe-making as well, then we could write an article about it.

Richard Nowell (talk) 12:04, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

I sort-of see your point, but the heading is 'tailoring' (the activity or trade of a tailor), not shoemaking. Wikipedia could well do with an article on the history of UK (particularly Northampton) shoemaking, and G&G would fit in well there (AS wouldn't qualify on many levels), but it comes down to what is the purpose of this particular article? 213.121.240.254 (talk) 00:19, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Visiting tailors

Many used 9-10 Savile Row, I suspect mainly for the prestige of a Row address, and will probably continue at the new Holland and Sherry address; some have (had) separate entries (I amalgamated Alexandra Wood with 31 Savile Row), but others have a separate entry (Henry Herbert Tailors) - my feeling is that they should all go under a single address but others might have different ideas. 2A02:C7F:DD04:9600:F118:CC96:AA68:C34B (talk) 20:52, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Proposing to add a paragraph about the dissemination of Saville Row trained tailors and house managers around the world

We are seeing more Saville Row trained tailors and house managers who practice the Saville Row method emigrating from the London (for a variety of reasons) to other major cities and are opening high end bespoke tailor shops offering similar quality services. I'd like to add a paragraph with links to sources to that effect in the section about the "Future" section. Would that be acceptable? Philipophish (talk) 23:46, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

I like the idea, as it shows the importance/continuing relevance of Savile Row to tailoring, but I'd also ask caution - there are many people who claim to have been trained/worked etc. on SR who in fact were not tailors or are not producing bespoke clothes, but use the connection as advertising/'quality guarantee' inappropriately. 213.121.240.254 (talk) 06:49, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

I have read the part you have added; as I noted above, the problem is what is advertising and what actually represents Savile Row'? Of the two examples you have given, Richard James only offers bespoke in London, not New York, and I'm pretty sure that Reeves was a salesman here (neither a tailor nor a cutter). I don't say that the work that comes out under his name might not be bespoke (his advert certainly suggests it is), but he has no direct experience of cutting or tailoring to lead me to believe that what he produces can be called 'Savile Row'. A much better example would be Leonard Logsdail or Bernard Weatherill. Also Huntsman now has a full-time presence in New York with a cutter on site. I have also altered the following paragraph as the quote you give is not from (then) Prince Charles, but from Thomas Mahon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7F:D4D2:5B00:1415:EFE2:B433:69D8 (talk) 22:05, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the comment. I've been to Reeves' location first hand so I've seen the operation. It seems like all parts of the suits being made under his management are individually hand sewn by craftsman in the same way as Savile Row and he's also part of the designing process, so I wouldn't call him a salesman, but a head cutter, I guess, would be the title. I shall include the other names you mentioned. Philipophish (talk) 01:09, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you; I would still query the designation of Reeves - to be the cutter he has to be the person who draws up the pattern then used to make the suit - if he does that he is indeed the cutter. Also, 'bespoke' requires an individual pattern being drawn up for each client, not how the pieces are then sewn together. However, I get the impression that he might be the 'designer' but is not involved in the actual construction of the suit. There is some discussion elsewhere about design in Savile Row - that generally this is a missing element and that it might be better if there were 'designers' as cutters generally have technical skills but are not designers - hence the rise of people like Ralph Lauren or Tom Ford. But my original comment above still holds true - many people claim 'Savile Row training' but are/were never cutters (or tailors - very few are both) and so are not actually part of the history of SR tailoring (whereas some clearly were/are part of SR 'DNA' such as Thomas Mahon (based in Wigton) or Edwin Deboise (Steed bespoke tailors) 2A02:C7F:D4D2:5B00:9416:864:6548:43F5 (talk) 20:23, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

If you see this page, you can see their process.: https://www.reeves-nyc.com/about Philipophish (talk) 20:40, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

As I said above, I can be easily convinced that the outfit is a bespoke tailor. My problem is - Reeves was a salesman, not a cutter or tailor, and that fact that he sold suits on Savile Row does not make his suits (or, better, suits produced under his name) 'Savile Row' - if anything, just the opposite, as he has been selling ready-to-wear (and, perhaps MTM) ad has had no input into the design/structure/etc. of what he was selling. His website notes that he was a salesman, and he worked for companies such as Prada and Commes des Garcons suggesting an interest in fashion, and all the SR companies he mentions have significant RTW collections, which is what he must have been dealing with. I also have difficulty with his comment that his suits have a 'strong Savile Row influence' - like Kilgour, or Huntsman, or A&S? - which are all immediately identifiable and significantly different from each other.... 213.121.240.254 (talk) 14:58, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

I see that "Oknazevad" has removed the quote given about what has happened to tailors on the Row by Thomas Mahon in an article published in the Evening Standard. I don't feel I should put it back (I didn't put it there in the first place) but I feel its removal is unhelpful in that the author worked on the Row and is perfectly able to give an opinion as to how the street/tailors have changed over time. The comment 'Frankly, the whole paragraph is the undue regurgitation of one person's opinion' may be true, but it was given by someone who knew what he was talking about.... 109.144.214.158 (talk) 15:34, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Manning and Manning

Am trying to unblock the website for Manning and Manning from the spam blacklist site: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:Spam-blacklist#Manning_and_Manning I have no idea when it was added or for what reasons. Richard Nowell (talk) 12:40, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Further, the address was blacklisted as it was like the spammer manning.com. It will hopefully be OK soon (please read link).Richard Nowell (talk) 12:00, 7 June 2023 (UTC)