Talk:Saturn (SZA song)

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Saturn (SZA song) article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Songs

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Songs, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of songs on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SongsWikipedia:WikiProject SongsTemplate:WikiProject Songssong articles

Women in Music Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women in Music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Women in music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women in MusicWikipedia:WikiProject Women in MusicTemplate:WikiProject Women in MusicWomen in music articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

R&B and Soul Music Low‑importance

	R&B and Soul Music portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject R&B and Soul Music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of R&B and Soul Music articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.R&B and Soul MusicWikipedia:WikiProject R&B and Soul MusicTemplate:WikiProject R&B and Soul MusicR&B and Soul Music articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Pop music Low‑importance

	Pop music portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pop music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to pop music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Pop musicWikipedia:WikiProject Pop musicTemplate:WikiProject Pop musicPop music articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Astrology Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Astrology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Astrology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AstrologyWikipedia:WikiProject AstrologyTemplate:WikiProject Astrologyastrology articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:

A fact from Saturn (SZA song) appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 5 April 2024 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Ariana Grande's song about Saturn returns, as well as SZA's and Kacey Musgraves', were coincidentally released just weeks apart?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2024/April. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Saturn (SZA song).

Wikipedia

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 14:32, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

... that while SZA'd thought life is better on Saturn, we can still save the Earth by planting 100 million trees? Source: Billboard, HotNewHipHop
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Semantics for Saturn (SZA song); Template:Did you know nominations/Motivation and Template:Did you know nominations/Who Are You? (Buffy the Vampire Slayer) for Saturn Returns Interlude

Created by Lk95 (talk). Nominated by Your Power (talk) at 03:54, 25 February 2024 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Saturn (SZA song); consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: - Not done
Overall: @Your Power and Lk95: The article overall looks fine, and I really like that cheeky hook, so good job! I should point out, though, that a QPQ submission is still needed... Plus, I feel like you could tweak the hook slightly, just to make clearer that SZA performed the song in direct endorsement of that forest restoration initiative. Oltrepier (talk) 15:25, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Will handle the QPQ soon, @Oltrepier. Anyways, I am not too entirely convinced of the request above. The DYK as it stands is already factually correct, and adding this specificity to the hook only serves to clutter it with additional, unnecessary information, which I feel diminishes the interest factor. Welcoming a third opinion, though ‍ Elias 🪐 (dreaming of Saturn; talk here) 08:09, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Your Power: I think you're right, actually. Maybe we could just add a link to Forest restoration, couldn't we? Oltrepier (talk) 08:24, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oh... not sure about that either. "save the Earth by planting 100 million trees" is an intuitively easy thing to understand, and as such needs no linking ‍ Elias 🪐 (dreaming of Saturn; talk here) 09:33, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Found the hook prime to be clunky, so I propose an ALT1:

... that even if life might be better in Saturn, 100 million more trees planted can still make life here better for everyone?

Pinging Oltrepier for their thoughts on which variant is better. I will admit that contemp music articles are hard to DYK-ify in general, so any more hook suggestions would be useful here (considering i believe there is some interesting stuff presented in the article) ‍ Elias 🪐 (dreaming of Saturn; talk here) 10:46, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Your Power: It looks good, thank you! To be honest, that's a very DYK-worthy caption already, so no worries: we can always work on the hook during the review phase. On a side note, how is the QPQ sub going? Oltrepier (talk) 10:57, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Your Power: Please respond to the above. If a QPQ is not provided in a few days, this nomination may be closed as unsuccessful. Z1720 (talk) 15:15, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The hooks proposed are absolutely POV, reading like PR or plain propaganda. One's reforestation initiative can be presented without blanket endorsement, just like one artist's creative outburst or vague metaphor should not be addressed as an actual statement of belief. Regardless of how you feel about the cause championed here: find another, neutrally worded, hook; our readers are not idiots. Dahn (talk) 23:16, 24 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your comment. I will get to this with a new hook in a moment, but it will require a new nominated article to merge with this nom/hook + the QPQs to match. Will ping once this is settled ‍ Elias 🪐 (dreaming of Saturn; talk here) 08:11, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

With the new article "Saturn Returns Interlude" created, I would like to propose the following hook:

"... that singers Kacey Musgraves, Ariana Grande, and SZA all happened to release songs about Saturn returns just two weeks apart from each other?" Source: Rolling Stone, Nylon, NYT, Vogue

Pinging @Dahn and @Oltrepier. ‍ Elias 🪐 (dreaming of Saturn; talk here) 05:02, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Your Power: Very nice idea, indeed! I would only suggest you, if you can, to create a new article for Kacey's song "Deeper Well" (since it was the lead single from the album), so you can complete the "trifecta" of nominations. Plus, make sure this coincidence is properly addressed in all of the three articles (currently, only the page about "Saturn Returns Interlude" mentions the topical bond between these three songs). Oltrepier (talk) 08:39, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you @Oltrepier, but while I would love for "Deeper Well" to have its own article, coverage in RS outside of album reviews is currently sparse and I don't think WP:THREE (the guideline and the "trifecta" you mention) will be met. I have added the note about the coincidences to the "Saturn" article. ‍ Elias 🪐 (dreaming of Saturn; talk here) 06:06, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Your Power: That's perfectly fine, and we should be good to go now, anyway! Oltrepier (talk) 09:06, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Your Power, Oltrepier, and Dahn: That hook cannot be promoted as the links clearly violate MOS:EGG. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:16, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@AirshipJungleman29: Oh, thank you for clarifying it. So, does @Your Power have to tweak the hook further? Oltrepier (talk) 14:18, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A new hook is needed, yes, and then you will need to check it again; if it is suitable, I can then promote it into a queue. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:20, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, how about this: "... that Ariana Grande's song about Saturn returns, as well as SZA's and Kacey Musgraves', were coincidentally released just weeks apart? @AirshipJungleman29 @Oltrepier. ‍ Elias 🪐 (dreaming of Saturn; talk here) 03:07, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Your Power: It should be fine, thank you! Oltrepier (talk) 08:49, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]