Talk:Sarwo Edhie Wibowo

Act of Free Choice

Updated the article's 'Act of Free Choice' section a few days ago; but on pretext of citation Merbabu erupted REVERTING the article instead of discussing the edit or saying what facts she is disputing. Does _anyone_ know what facts Merbabu is refluting in the 'Act of Free Choice' entry? I have been asking for days, but Merbabu refuses to talk and refuses to say what facts she is refluting. Does anyone have a copy Sarwo Edhie's birth certificate to prove that is his name? Does anyone have absolute proof that Suharto secured his Presidency in 1968? It really would help if Merbabu would say WHICH facts she is refluting before announcing she will not allow further edits to the article/.58.107.15.245 23:51, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I should point out during 1961/1962 Indonesia attempted a number of incursons in the effort obtain the territory of West New Guinea, Operation/Operasi Mandala with 1419 troops was one such effort; the incursions failed and the troops were sent back to Java unharmed. Unfortunately Merbabu will not say whether she refuses to accept that such incursions happen, that Indonesian troops got arrested by Papuans, that they got sent back to Indonesia; or if it is some other issue she is objecting to seeing become public.58.107.15.245 00:03, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Please see your talk page SatuSuro 02:15, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

As neither User:Merbabu or User:SatuSuro will explain which facts they are asking citation for; I am returning the content removed by Merbabu until such time as they explain.58.107.15.245 01:45, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Copy from 58.107.15.245 talk page

Merbabu Is away for a week - I strongly suggest that if you have issues about edits - that you (a) take up a wikipedia user name/account (b) seek third party opinions re the edits (c) merbabu is a he (d) dont give up - some parts of wikipedia are very quiet... (e) check what WP:RS is all about - cheers! SatuSuro 01:52, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

With respect - it doesnt matter how long you have been around - at the bottom of this when in edit mode - the expression is made Encyclopedic content must be verifiable and Merbabu is quite within his rights as another editor to revert something that you have not added any citations or sources. One web page is not enough and your comment to me : - is there anything in my entry which is generally unknown? I thought Operation Mandala was well known, monuments have been built and celebrations held in honor of the victory over the Papuans is simply not what Merbabu is making a point about regarding WP:Reliable Sources or my point about WP:Verifiability - you need to address those challenges - unknown, generally known or whatever is unfortunately not what is needed - specific sources that can be cited are what are needed to back the comments found in the article...SatuSuro 13:57, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Copy from Sat Suro Talk page

Thank you for trying to assist, you might as well know that I have been editing Wikipedia since 2001, and I have nil interest in being engaged in edit wars which is why I have been asking Merbabu to explain what he needed clarification on. Without his feedback I can only assume he is probably objecting to something which looks odd to a person with an Indonesian education.

You might be able to help; is there anything in my entry which is generally unknown? I thought Operation Mandala was well known, monuments have been built and celebrations held in honor of the victory over the Papuans.58.107.15.245 07:52, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I was NOT talking about Merbabu's "rights" to delete other people's content ; I was talking about his and your refusal to explain what to his mind required explicit citation. I only stated what is common and undisputed knowledge. That fact is that the entire article and everything you have ever written has been without proper citation - over 90% of Wikipedia is without citation of its claims, that is the nature of Wikipedia and the reason it can grow faster than professional publications. If you are unfamiliar with the subject, then don't write about it. But if you do have an interest and think there is something in error - it is normal to use the discussion page before "REVERTING" other people's work.58.107.15.245 01:39, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

If I understand this disagreement correctly, Merbabu has reverted an edit which the anon did because it didn't have a citation. SatuSuro supports Merbabu's position. The anon says its "common and undisputed knowledge". I have no idea if that's true or not because I have zero knowledge of the topic, but both sides need to present evidence to support their own case.

Disagreements like this are confusing to outsiders like me when the discussion is held over several pages. Can I suggest that someone summarises the issues and what the disagreement is about on the article talk page here. This needs to be in neutral and non-emotive language. —Moondyne 08:45, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

My issues with the anon edits were that WP:RS were not provided. I stated that from the start in my edit summaries. In my opinion WP:RS is a very simple concept, but a fundamental one - certainly one that should be understood by an editor who claims to have been here since 2001 (!?!?!). As such, I find it difficult that the anon editor does not know what my concern is. A second issue, was the detailed information on the actual Act of Free Choice which should go in that particular article, or an article on the history of the region - not in a biography (although of course, limited contextural info can be provided but I can't see a case for more than 1 or two sentences). Ie, what does the Morning Star, Freeport, and the year 2000 renaming of the province, for example, actually have to do with Wibowo? This section has been appropriately trimmed by myself and another editor. I will shortly comment on this user's talk page. Merbabu 11:49, 10 February 2007 (UTC)