Talk:South Punjab Province

This article was nominated for deletion on 7 August 2013 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep.

Spelling

Correct spelling of Siraikistan are Siraikistan because Siraiki is from Sindhi language word Siro(head)therefore we should write Sariakistn as Siraikistan --Rasoolpuri (talk) 14:58, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why Siraikistan

Siraiki is an independent nationalty .It has its own land'language'market'culture and traditions .Therefore it has right for his Siraiki provice in centeral Pakistan.--Rasoolpuri (talk) 16:11, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Saraiki Speaking Areas

Draft materials

Twenty one distracts in punjab, Pakistan , two distracts from Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa Province, Pakistan and two agencies are saraiki speaking area.

see this map of Saraikistan.

See area and Population of Saraikisan.

These distracts are also Saraiki

Saraiki is spoken in India, United Arab Emirates and Afghanistan also. Saraiki is second largest language in Kingdom of Saudi Arabia with more than 2.5M. In United Kingdom Saraiki is spoken by 400,000. In Canada, China, South Africa and United States saraiki is also spoken. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.186.56.32 (talk) 08:40, 21 October 2012 (UTC) This map Shows region of Native Saraiki speaking.[reply]

File:Map of Saraikistan.jpg

Proposed map of Saraikistan

File:Saraiki distracts area.jpg

Detailed list of area and population of Saraikistan

No, It is a language map. It may be treated as language map also. Toba tek singh, Chaniot, Jhang,Khanewal,Vehari, Bahawalnagar,Khaushab, Sargodha, Mianwali, Sahiwal, Pakpattan, Okara are also saraiki speaking areas. More than Saraiki waseb, Saraiki is native language in the districts of Chakwal, Hafizabad, Mandi Bahuddin, Faisalabad, Okara and Toba Tek Singh are also Saraiki.www.sikhchic.com

Your map is only a political map of new province SOUTH PUNJAB including 2 districts of Kyber Pakhtunkhah on administrative basis not on language basis which includes 11 Saraiki districts ( DI Khan, Tank, Bhakker, Layyah, DG khan, Rajanpur, MuzzafarGarh, Multan, Lodhraan, Bahalwalpur and Rahimyar khan) and 12 Punjabi majority districts (Toba tek singh, Chaniot, Jhang,Khanewal,Vehari, Bahawalnagar,Khaushab, Sargodha, Mianwali, Sahiwal, Pakpattan, Okara) as per Census of Pakistan 1998. u can check them in district profile books percentages of languages as choosen by the people of those district as their mother tongue. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 39.47.82.49 (talk) 17:56, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dialects of Saraiki language

Draft chart

Saraiki language and Jhangvi Saraiki are the two more important dialects of Saraiki language. Thali Saraiki has minor difference with Saraiki language. Other five dialects are minor dialects.

Dialect group of Saraiki	Subdialect	Where spoken	Alternate_names	Notes
Saraiki (Central or Pure Saraiki)	Saraiki Language	Multan District, Lodhran District, Bahawalpur District, Muzaffargarh District, Rahim Yar Khan District, Dera Ghazi Khan District, Rajanpur District, Derawal Nagar, Delhi, India	1.Riyāsatī in Bahawalpur District. 2.Ḍerāwālī in Dera Ghazi Khan	1.According to Masica, the two names Bahāwalpurī and Riyāsatī are locally specific names for the Multani dialect group, possibly specific dialects within the group.^[1] According to Shackle, they instead denote a distinct dialect group. Also according to Shackle, the Bahawalpur District of Punjab Province (i.e., within its 1976 boundaries) is split between Mūltānī in the north and Bahāwalpurī in the south, with the dialect of Bahawalpur city being of blend of these two. 2.According to Masica, this use of the name Ḍerāwālī is to be distinguished from its use as an alternate name for a different dialect group (see following row). The spelling with retroflex 'Ḍ' instead of 'D' is according to Masica.^[1] The name dialect name "Thaḷī" is used to refer to the local dialects of both Dera Ghazi Khan and Dera Ismail Khan, but "Thaḷī" in the former is the Multani dialect and "Ḍerāwālī " in the latter is the Thaḷī dialect.^[1]^: 239ff^{: Appendix I:220-245}
	Thaḷī Saraiki	Bhakkar District, Layyah District, Muzaffargarh District, Dera Ismail Khan District, Khyber Pukhtunkhwa, Tank District, Khyber Pukhtunkhwa, Derawal Nagar, Delhi, India	1.Thalochi and Thaḷochṛi in Bhakkar District. 2.Jaṭkī; Hindko or Hindki on the west of Indus River. 3.Thaḷī in Dera Ismail Khan District and Tank District	1.Named after the Thal Desert, a region bordered by the Indus River to the west and the Jhelum and Chenab Rivers to the east. 2.Hindko is classified as Lahnda language whose southern dialects are closer to Saraiki. Sometimes, in Mianwali, it is referred as Mianwali di Boli and has close link with Hindko.
	Sindhi-Saraiki	Northern part of Sindh including Kashmore District, Jacobabad District, Shikarpur District, Tando Muhammad Khan District, Tando Allahyar District, Sobho Khan Mastoi, Kamal Khan Mastoi, Thatta District, Sujawal, Dadu District and Ghotki District.	Sireli (of north)	Dialect of Saraiki which has some features of the Sindhi language. Sindhi Saraiki is also categorized as a dialect of Sindhi language. In the Interier Sindh, 40% of population speak Sindhi-Saraiki.
	Jhangvi Saraiki	Jhang District, Faisalabad District, Gujrat District, Mandi Bahauddin, Chakwal, Hafizabad, Gujranwala District, Jangal Bar tract of Faisalabad District, Okara, pakpattan and all regions encompassing the former Montgomery District	Jhangochi, Jhangi	Jhangvi dialects actually be closer to the Saraiki language. It also includes Nissoani sub-dialect or local name of Jhangi spoken by a tribe, Nissoana, as of 1919 in northern parts of Jhang District. Another sub-dialect of Jhangi, Kacchī, is named for alluvial desert plain of Kacchi, southwest of Jhang town.Dialect of Jhangochi spoken by the pastoral tribes of the mentioned areas, such as the Kharals, Wattus, Johiyas, who used to rear cattle and sheep in the jungles, before irrigation of the region. It is also called Chenavari (Cināwaṛī or Cinhāwaṛī) due to the name of an area on the right bank of the Chenab River.
	Jadgali	Southwest of Sindh, and Jafarabad District and Nasirabad District of Balochistan. Also in Iran	Jat, Jatgali, Jatki	A Dialect of Sindhi. It is closer to Saraiki
	Khetrani	Sulaiman Mountains, Balochistan		Classified as a dialect of Balochi as well as Lahnda language, is closer to Saraiki.
	Jafri	Musakhel District, Balochistan
	Kandahari - Multani	Kandahar, Afghanistan		It is spoken by Hindus living in Kandahar.^[2] Some of these people are called Kandhari or Hindki.

References

^ ^a ^b ^c Masica, Colin. 1991. The Indo-Aryan languages. Cambridge University Press.
^ "Pakistan/India/Afghanistan: Multani language; extent to which it is used by Hindus in Afghanistan". Retrieved 8 April 2012. Hindus have always lived in Afghanistan. That's one reason why they call themselves Kandharis and not Multanis and Seraikies. Some of the old temples in the area also point to this theory. The word Kandh in Seraiki means wall. Kandahar used to have many walls. The Hilmand river flowing in that area was labelled "Rud-e-hind-wa-sind" by Arabic manuscripts. Before the influx of Pashtoons the inhabitants of Kandahar spoke Seraiki. The Pashtoons labelled their language "Jataki". The language spoken by Afghan Hindus in Kandahar known as Kandhari is probably "Jataki".

map of Saraikistan

File:Map of Saraikistan.jpg

Proposed map of Saraikistan

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.186.64.134 (talk) 15:05, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Language of Tank and FR DI KHAN

The majority language of Tank and FR DI Khan not saraiki, its pashto and everyone knows that. http://www.ethnologue.com/map/PK_s http://www.aserpakistan.org/document/report_cards/2012/District_report_cards/FATA/F.R.%20-%20D.I.%20Khan.pdf, http://www.financekpp.gov.pk/FD/pakhtunkhwa-at-a-glance/races-a-tribes, http://www.aserpakistan.org/document/report_cards/2012/District_report_cards/FATA/F.R.%20-%20D.I.%20Khan.pdf, Tank District (http://archives.dawn.com/weekly/herald/herald130.htm) has been shown as saraiki speaking by proponents of Saraiki province, however, we know that there were protests in Tank for there inclusion in Saraiki Province, since more than 80% of the population there is Pashto speaking (Bhittani, Wazir, Masud, Kundi's, few Jats etc)tell me if their are anyother major ethnic groups in Tank??, evenmore now after the war on terror. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tigerkhan007 (talk • contribs) 22:29, 17 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Saraikistan vs Bahawalpur South Punjab

Although the two ideas of a separate administrative unit in the south of Punjab might seem similar, they are not the same. Saraikistan is the name of a would-be province in the Saraiki-speaking part of Punjab, the idea of which has been promoted since the 1970s, and continues to be to this date, by the Saraiki Nationalist Movement. In turn, Bahawalpur South Punjab was a short-lived idea floated by Pakistan Peoples Party before the 2013 general election in order to attract voters from southern Punjab. In my view, it is fully warranted to have two separate articles on these two ideas (unless Saraikistan is merged into Saraiki nationalism). If anything then Bahawalpur South Punjab could be merged into Saraikistan - and not the other way round as some persistent IP editor wants. So, please do not redirect this article to Bahawalpur South Punjab! kashmiri ^TALK 19:09, 1 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Article history

The edit history of this topic is a mess beyonid repair: identical (or similar) content has variously been created and recreated at Saraikistan, Seraikistan, Saraikistan Movement and Saraiki nationalism, sometimes in sequence and sometimes in parallel. The histories of these articles might contain content worth salvaging. – Uanfala (talk) 18:37, 2 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Uanfala: My full support. I am revisiting this article after a 2-3 years's break and am shocked to see that so much content has vanished. In the current shape Wikipedia contains not a single mention of the independence movement in the area and all the varied political history related to these aspirations. I regret I won't likely have tome to salvage this but maybe someone can help? — kashmīrī ^TALK 11:16, 2 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Well, this is beyond my sphere of competence and interest, so I don't think I can help. At least on the language aspect of the issues, I've come across detailed studies by Shackle, Rahman and by Wagha, so there's decent amount of literature to start working from. – Uanfala (talk) 11:49, 2 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete This Page

This page is entirely against Wikipedia policy, because it is criticism in pakistan. And entire Punjabi is against so called saraikistan because it it a foriegn funded movement in pakistan. Well there is no need of provience in Punjab. And some political parties ask for provience South Punjab, not saraikistan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rana Zubair Punjabi (talk • contribs) 16:54, 31 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

India is also foreign-funded and many people are against it. Do you suggest to delete India article? — kashmīrī ^TALK 17:03, 31 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Change the Name from Sarikistan to South Punjab

The name of this proposed province is South Punjab not Saraikistan. Change it as soon as possible. South Punjab is the name of proposed Province. is any one available for discussion?— Preceding unsigned comment added by Saad Ali Khan Pakistan (talk • contribs)

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2349574/govt-moves-south-punjab-summary

For now:oppose As the link avove states: Prime Minister Imran Khan has chosen to seek the cabinet’s nod through circulation instead of bringing the summary in the regular cabinet meeting for discussion and then approval. The move appears to be a political gimmick, as the government did not have two-third majority in the National Assembly to get the Constitution amended. Beside that, it is a proposal, not a fact. The Banner talk 08:43, 17 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It was called Seraikistan during 2008 to 2010. Now movement for this province suggested the name South Punjab. Before 2018 elections Janubi Punjab suba Mahaz was formed by the defectors of PMLN from South Punjab which is (South Punjab Province Army/group) which was later merged with Pakistan Tehreek e Insaf. This also gives a strong suggestion to change name of this page. They didnt called it seraikistan suba mahaz

Saad Ali Khan Pakistan (talk) 20:49, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Banner When will its name will be changed in this article?. Seraikistan is not the name of this proposed province. see another link in which proposed province is named South Punjab

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2339502/saraiki-province Saad Ali Khan Pakistan (talk) 06:33, 15 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

When there is consensus among editors about the name. So far, only the two of us are involved and no one else unfortunately. Maybe you should start a separate Request for Comments about this issue to draw in outside interest. The Banner talk 09:24, 15 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Useful refs

Bookku (talk) 08:58, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

[Masica1991-1] Masica, Colin. 1991. The Indo-Aryan languages. Cambridge University Press.

[Afghanistan-2] "Pakistan/India/Afghanistan: Multani language; extent to which it is used by Hindus in Afghanistan". Retrieved 8 April 2012. Hindus have always lived in Afghanistan. That's one reason why they call themselves Kandharis and not Multanis and Seraikies. Some of the old temples in the area also point to this theory. The word Kandh in Seraiki means wall. Kandahar used to have many walls. The Hilmand river flowing in that area was labelled "Rud-e-hind-wa-sind" by Arabic manuscripts. Before the influx of Pashtoons the inhabitants of Kandahar spoke Seraiki. The Pashtoons labelled their language "Jataki". The language spoken by Afghan Hindus in Kandahar known as Kandhari is probably "Jataki".

[1]

[2]