Talk:Sarı Saltık

Mythical or Semi-mythical

Note that this article concerns a mythical figure (cf. Paul Bunyan) who does not have birth and death dates. Languagehat (talk) 21:47, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

I would note that he is not entirely mythical: he seems to have been the religious leader the Turks who accompanied the deposed Seljuq sultan Kaykaus II into exile. See the Wittek article listed in the bibliography below. Aramgar (talk) 23:20, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, sure, I'm not saying he never existed, just that whatever historical reality he may once have had is lost in the mists of time and legend, so it makes no sense to ask for birth/death dates. Languagehat (talk) 00:36, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. Perhaps a floruit? 13th century is fine. Aramgar (talk) 00:38, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Bibliography

I have had these two articles for some time in the hopes of creating this article myself; perhaps they may be of use to other editors. The first can be found at JSTOR the second may present difficulties but contains useful information. Aramgar (talk) 23:04, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

• Paul Wittek, “Yazijioghlu 'Ali on the Christian Turks of the Dobruja" Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London, Vol. 14, No. 3, Studies Presented to Vladimir Minorsky by His Colleagues and Friends. (1952), pp. 639-668.
• Machiel Kiel, "The Türbe of Sarı Saltık at Babadag-Dobrudja. Brief Historical and Architectural Notes" Güney-Doğu Avrupa Araştırmaları Dergisi 6-7, (Istanbul, 1978), pp. 205-220. Also in Machiel Kiel, Studies on the Ottoman Architecture of the Balkans (Variorum, 1990).

Sorry I stole your thunder, but why not add them yourself? Languagehat (talk) 00:36, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for creating the article Languagehat. I also wanted to create the article a long time ago ;) (I didn't want the GA-wannabe article on Dobruja to have redlinks), but I was extremely confused by contradicting sources (I remember even drafting an article, but it remained somewhere on my computer due to lack of reliable sources). For now, I used Encyclopedia of Islam, and later I'll scan through available sources so to reference the facts with the ones more in line with our policy (basing a whole article on a non-free encyclopedia is not the right way to do it). I am busy in this period, so if anyone wants to expand this article before I do it, here's a free (but Christian biased) book [1] , that has lots of information about the legends surrounding Saltuk. Wittek's article can also be found freely online (although I'm not sure about its legality... but as long as we don't copy fragments from it, we can use it). Kiel's article seems interesting, so if you have it/a link to it, feel free to put it here (if it's not a link, you can use wikipedia's e-mail function ). Baltaci (talk) 01:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm awed by your and Aramgar's contribution histories and obvious expertise; it makes me feel like a dilettante. I was editing an article on Islamic history in the Balkans for an encyclopedia (a paper one!) and ran across this guy, and it irritated me that there wasn't an article for him, so I went ahead and created one. If I'd known you guys had your eyes on him, I would have been too abashed. But it's already much improved—thanks! Languagehat (talk) 21:06, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I worked a bit more on it, using sources available through Google Books. I concentrated fro now on the "most" historical things that can be said about him, but I still have to integrate the two original quotes in the body of the article (then I'll also mention his role in the migrations in Dobruja). I'm not quite sure what to do with the "Legendary figure" subsection (abundant material in the link above). Maybe someone could help (at least with some suggestions). If we can find an interesting hook, we may propose this to WP:DYK in the next 2 days (but after the quotes are integrated in the text)Baltaci (talk) 01:38, 11 April 2008 (UTC)