Talk:Sapiah

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles

Indigenous peoples of North America

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Native Americans, Indigenous peoples in Canada, and related indigenous peoples of North America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Indigenous peoples of North AmericaWikipedia:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North AmericaTemplate:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North AmericaIndigenous peoples of North America articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

United States: Utah Low‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	Utah portal This article is supported by WikiProject Utah (assessed as Low-importance).

Article title

I have been working on expanding the article, and along the way, I am not seeing the chief referred to by Sapiah much. In Indian Bureau and census records, he's referred to as Charles Buck - without his Ute name when other family members do have their Ute name - and newspapers and other publications generally referred to him as Buckskin Charlie.

From newspapers.com:

"Buckskin Charley" or "Buckskin Charlie" and Ute 946 matches
"Sapiah" 1 match
I am having a hard time zeroing in on this specific Charles Buck, but it is probably a subset of 234 Charles Bucks in Colorado

Based upon WP:Common name, it seems to me that the article title should be "Buckskin Charlie". What do you think?–CaroleHenson (talk) 15:29, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have no strong feelings either way. I don't object to keeping it as it is, because the name is his birth name. I first came to this article a couple of years ago when I read The owl in Monument Canyon. In the book, he's Buckskin Charley. That's what I searched to find out more about him here, and a redirect/cross-reference led me to the article.

Two things I don't understand about the article in its current state are: "Sarah (Pah-Ho-SE)" and "Frances (Tri-ni-dad)." The parenthetical expressions, presumably pronunciation guides, don't match the names.

Jeffrey Beall (talk) 15:17, 12 March 2024 (UTC).[reply]

Jeffrey Beall, Thanks for your reply. Regarding your "two things", the names in parenthesis are their Ute names, so I added the link for Ute language like "Sarah (Ute: Pah-Ho-SE)". Is it "two things" because you provided two names?

I don't think the hyphens are for pronunciation - that's the way their Ute names are written, like in the census records.

Regarding the article title, my vote is for Buckskin Charley per WP:Commonname, but I won't lose sleep over keeping it Sapiah.–CaroleHenson (talk) 15:37, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the two things were the two names. Adding Ute: before the name clears up my confusion. Thanks,

Jeffrey Beall (talk) 15:43, 12 March 2024 (UTC).[reply]

Are there any additional thoughts about the article title? It would be helpful to have more than 2 votes. If so, do you have a guideline for your vote?

I have also posted the question at Talk:Ute people#Article title and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Colorado#Saphiah Article title.

I will keep this up until March 20, seven days after today's post at Ute people's and WikiProject Colorado talk pages.

Thanks!–CaroleHenson (talk) 13:57, 13 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]