Talk:Sansoen Phra Barami

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Untitled

can someone add a translation please?

Sarit Thanarat influence

There has been speculation among musicologists that a particular phrase in the lyrics indicate influence by former Prime Minister Sarit Thanarat, who is widely recognized to be in strong favor of the royal family. Sarit had brought back the aura and prestige of the family following its low points after the 1932 revolution. The lines ธ ประสงค์ใด / จงสฤษดิ์ (Tha Prasong Dai / Chong Sarit), translates to "that whatever he wills / Will come to pass". The word "Sarit" (spelled exactly the same way in both contexts) is an uncommon Thai word and has not been used with this meaning (to come to pass) in any other writing or lyrics.

While the origins of the composition and lyrics are unclear, it is well know that the practice of playing the royal anthem in theatres (along with the national anthem twice a day) was instituted by none other that Sarit Thanarat. It is therefore speculated that Sarit Thanarat indeed had a hand in inserting his own name into the national anthem, and was announcing that he would would be the one to make all His Majesty's wishes come to pass. Simondeclares (talk) 17:48, 9 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Something wrong with this

"Until 1932 Phleng Sansoen Phra Barami was the national anthem of Siam, and was then replaced by Phleng Chat. The anthem is still played each morning, evening and at the beginning of each film in the theatre.

What anthem does it refer to; the royal or national one? The national anthem, Phleng Chat, is played twice a day, but not in the theatre. The royal anthem, Phleng Sanseon Phra Barami, is played in the theatre before every film, but, as far as I know, not every morning and evening. CW32 20:33, 5 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly - so I changed the sentence. (Oops, was not logged in.) Dekthep 22:27, 18 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The name is wrong and composer is still unclear

Phleng means Song. So name of the song should be "Sansoen Phra Barami". As I know, a composer is still unclear. Some say melody of this song was copied from Thai Classical song called "Bulan Loy Luen" composed by King Rama II. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.137.14.42 (talk) 08:31, 22 March 2007 (UTC).[reply]

The composer isn't that Russian composer for sure because there is no evidence whatsoever. It seemed someone just made that up. The song called "Bulan Laui Luean" was composed by King Rama II and since he liked it so much he used it to be his personal anthem, not a royal anthem per se. And if one listens to this song, one will find that nothing is similar to the current royal anthem at all. Ajan Bunchuy Sowat, a retired lecturer of Thai music at Chulalongkorn University suggested that the modern royal anthem probably derived from an anthem-ish tune used in theatre during that time to denote the arrival of a royal or regal character. He could not prove it archaeologically however there are striking similarities between the two when compare them side by side. Prince Damrong once wrote that the royal anthem must have been composed by a Thai & Pra Chen Duriyangka's father arranged it for the royal brass band and since it was (and still is) tradition for newer composer to take older piece and "augmented" or "diminished" the piece to make it a new composition (called "Tao" or triple-part composition) in which the original would also be played in the middle section as "Saung Chan" (Second version). However this new composition will be credited to the new composer and thus the name of the original composer would be forgotten as many Thai traditional compositions are remembered as such. So I won't be surprise at all if people at that time would consider the new arrangement for brass band as a "new" composition. Mind you that we call Pra Chen's father by the name of He-wut-sen or something similar to that when his real name was Jacob Feit!

Audio-music versions guide

There is an extensive catalogue of a variety of variations on the Royal Anthem in an audio-video mix played at cinemas across Thailand. These vary from a child singing to a jazz-inflected pieces.

Can these be catalogued and sourced for this article? Does anyone know where they can be bought...? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.131.217.33 (talk) 12:01, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Tones in transcription

A user added tones to the transcription of the song, but I wonder how helpful this is to non-Thai readers. The melody of the song pretty much nullifies these tones, and the accents used are probably incomprehensible to laymen. Also, the headline now says "Thai transliteration (RTGS)", but the Royal Thai General System of Transcription does not record tones. I would feel bad however just to undo this piece of work. Solution anyone? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.88.230.144 (talk) 13:22, 8 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Transcription of name

I am curious about the second transcription of the name of the Royal anthem: The Thai is เพลงสรรเสริญพระบารมี, and this is transcribed as Phleng Sanrasoen Phra Barami. I am wondering if there hasn't been made a mistake in the second word (first if you don't count the phleng): Sanrasoen. With my (limited) knowledge of Thai I would have transcribed it as saroen or, given that ro ruea is silent after many so suea: soen (as in the first transcription). So, what I would like to know: In my eyes, writing sanrasoen seems to imply an inversion of the r and the second s, am I mistaken here, and is it simply a case of the last ro ruea of the ro han being pronounced twice? V85 (talk) 19:19, 25 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Not a typo; depending on one's views, it may be either a common mispronunciation which has made its way into the dictionary, or an accepted alternative pronunciation. There are a few ro han words like this. ภรรยา is the first to come to mind (correct pronunciation is [พัน-ยา] (phanya), though [พัน-ระ-ยา] (phanraya) is also acceptable). --Paul_012 (talk) 14:23, 26 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting example, when I learnt the word ภรรยา the รร was treated as two ร and not as ro han, giving the pronunciation ผอนฺระยา/ผนฺระยา. I see several of the iw links call the song 'Phleng Sansasoen'; is this also an acceptable transcription or is that a misunderstanding? V85 (talk) 18:49, 26 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Should the meaning of the song be using template transl. or lit.?

I saw that the article uses transl. "Glorify His Prestige" instead of lit. 'Glorify His Prestige' which is found in most other articles related to Thailand. Is this normal? Should I switch the template? Jothefiredragon🐲talk🐉edits 12:01, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There's no need to force an identical look. Just use whatever fits the context better (is it a literal translation or a looser one?) The transl/lit template isn't even necessary, if the fact that it's a translating gloss is obvious. However, it should be in single quotation marks, per MOS:SIMPLEGLOSS. --Paul_012 (talk) 15:12, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]