Talk:Samu incident

Warning: active arbitration remedies

The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:

You must be logged-in and extended-confirmed to edit or discuss this topic on any page (except for making edit requests, provided they are not disruptive)
You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on any edits related to this topic

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

Further information

The exceptions to the extended confirmed restriction are:

Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace only to make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive.
Non-extended-confirmed editors may not create new articles, but administrators may exercise discretion when deciding how to enforce this remedy on article creations. Deletion of new articles created by non-extended-confirmed editors is permitted but not required.

With respect to the WP:1RR restriction:

Clear vandalism of whatever origin may be reverted without restriction. Also, reverts made solely to enforce the extended confirmed restriction are not considered edit warring.
Editors who violate this restriction may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offence.

After being warned, contentious topics procedure can be used against any editor who repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process. Contentious topic sanctions can include blocks, topic-bans, or other restrictions.
Editors may report violations of these restrictions to the Arbitration enforcement noticeboard.

If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. When in doubt, don't revert!

A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on November 13, 2013, November 13, 2016, November 13, 2021, and November 13, 2024.

Jordan Mid‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Jordan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Jordan on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.JordanWikipedia:WikiProject JordanTemplate:WikiProject JordanJordan articles

Mid

This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Tasks YOU can help with:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Israel Mid‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Israel on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IsraelWikipedia:WikiProject IsraelTemplate:WikiProject IsraelIsrael-related articles

Mid

This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Project Israel To Do:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Assess : Rate the Unassessed Israel-related articles and Unknown-importance Israel-related articles.
Cleanup : Cleanup listing for this project is available. See also the list by category and the tool's wiki page.
Collaborate : Participate in WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration.
Copyedit : Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict in 2005
Deletion sorting : Participate in discussions at WikiProject Deletion sorting/Israel.
Expand : Ayala Procaccia, Diamond industry in Israel, Edna Arbel, Levin Kipnis, Rami Kleinstein, Sephardic Haredim, Zman Tel Aviv, Nachum Heiman, Public Defence (Israel), Prisoner of Zion, Trial of Benjamin Netanyahu, Day to Mark the Departure and Expulsion of Jews from the Arab Countries and Iran, Pre-Modern Aliyah
See also Articles needing translation from Hebrew Wikipedia.
Geographical coordinates : Add geographic coordinates to Israel articles missing geocoordinate data.
Infobox : Add infoboxes to Israel articles needing infoboxes.
Maintain : See Israel articles needing attention.
Map : See discussion at Module:Location map/data/Israel. Add maps to articles in Wikipedia requested maps in Israel.
NPOV : Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries
Photo : Add pictures to articles in Wikipedia requested photographs in Israel.
Stubs : See Israel stubs.
Update : Basic Law proposal: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People
Other :
- Translate to Hebrew : David Bar-Hayim, Guy Bavli, and Guy Oseary.

Palestine Mid‑importance

	Palestine portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Palestine, a team effort dedicated to building and maintaining comprehensive, informative and balanced articles related to the geographic Palestine region, the Palestinian people and the State of Palestine on Wikipedia. Join us by visiting the project page, where you can add your name to the list of members where you can contribute to the discussions.PalestineWikipedia:WikiProject PalestineTemplate:WikiProject PalestinePalestine-related articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Egypt Low‑importance

	Egypt portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Egypt, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Egypt on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EgyptWikipedia:WikiProject EgyptTemplate:WikiProject EgyptEgypt articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Military history: Middle East

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Middle Eastern military history task force

Unnecessary duplication

This article is nearly 100% identical with Operation Shredder (not surprisingly, since I merged this content , which was previosuly at Es Samu into Operation Shredder). There's a discussion at Talk:Operation Shredder on the need for a separate "Samu Incident" article, with the conclusion "no". Feel free to contribute there. Isarig 16:28, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I believe I have already responded to this point. It's inappropriate to structure Palestinian history according to which Israeli military operation was taking place. The Incident is of course much larger than Operation Shredder. I doubt also whether many people have heard of this operation's code name whereas most relevant history books cover the Samu Incident. --Ian Pitchford 16:50, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Feel free to rename Operation Shredder to Samu Incident, as was suggested and agreed on the Talk page there. These 2 articles are nearly 100% identical and there's no need for this duplication. Isarig 17:13, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think there should be two articles, Operation Shredder, a relatively short article on the details of the military operation, and another, Samu incident, covering more of the political/ideological/sociological contexts and the broader ramifications. --Ian Pitchford 17:29, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The "the political/ideological/sociological contexts and the broader ramifications" are already covered in the Operation Shredder article. Just rename it. Isarig 17:38, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is no logical basis for two articles on the same topic.Royalcourtier (talk) 23:16, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There is only one article. Operation Shredder is just a redirect to Samu Incident. Zero^talk 00:34, 3 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Upgrade to B rating?

Seeing that the article is large enough and has reliable references like Bowen and Michael Oren, I think we should upgrade its ratings

Object - there are severe problems with this article. It fails to make clear that this incident was part of an escalating pattern of Israeli attacks that culminated in the Six-Day War. We need evidence that there was really a mine killing 3 Israelis - or else make it clear that this is an unsupported Israeli claim. PR^talk 09:26, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Prelude to the Six-Day War?

In what way was the "Incident at Es Samu is regarded as a prelude to the Six-Day War"? They were unconnected, unless the editor means to say that because Israel got away with an unjustified attack on Jordan, it could get away similar attacks on Syria and Egypt. If that is what the author meant, that should be stated. I am not sure what else could have been meant by the statement. Incidentally, I am not sure whether the conclusion is justified.Royalcourtier (talk) 23:19, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies for the late response. In their "The Arab-Israeli Conflict Transformed", Hemda Ben-Yehuda and Shmuel Sandler make exactly that observation on page 34. Middle East Journal Vol. 46, No. 2 (Spring, 1992), p. 174 also lists the cross-border attack as a prelude. Erictheenquirer (talk) 06:45, 16 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Title

I am querying why this event has been given the decaffeinated title of an "incident". It was a cross-border invasion in violation of the U.N. Charter and of the General Armistice Agreements. Even the IDF calls it an "operation". The U.N. called it a "military action". Given that the IDF agreed, I propose that the title should at least be changed to "Samu IDF Cross-border Operation" or something similar Erictheenquirer (talk) 15:09, 15 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I would have proposed Battle of Samu which is very prevalent in Jordanian historiography, but the term does not have significant usage in English sources. Makeandtoss (talk) 17:25, 15 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks for that insight, Makeandtoss (talk · contribs). A Wiki essay cautions against over-representation of a dominant culture such as "the West's" view in English Wikipedia. Here is a perfect opportunity to remedy both the current decaffeinated nature of the title for this IDF attack, and to address biased flavours. If you are satisfied, I fully support a title change to "Battle of Samu". Any further suggestions so as to smooth out cultural over-representation and reflect the views of other players in the Middle East would, hopefully, be welcomed by all. Erictheenquirer (talk) 06:05, 16 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

June 2018 Article review

Better than most English Wiki articles on the Israel-Palestine conflict, this one still suffers from cultural bias. IDF allegations are rarely challenged while statements from Arabs/Palestinians are dismisses as not WP:RS. There is plenty of balancing commentary from the copious U.N. records (in UNISPAL) and I will be introducing this. The members of the Security Council received a spread input ranging from the Secretary General, the United Nations Truce Supervision Organization in Palestine (UNTSO)(on the ground), and the Jordanian and Israeli representatives, so they should be in a near-ideal position to judge cause, justification and merit. Erictheenquirer (talk) 10:48, 16 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

~~your recent edit removed some material with an edit summary that read "no source" - but there actually is a source given for one of those claims (Rubin). Attack Ramon (talk) 18:56, 16 June 2018 (UTC)~~[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 October 2023

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Under the "Aftermath" heading Walt Rostow is listed as a "Special Assistant." During this period he was National Security Advisor, a significantly different role.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Rostow Gumbus223 (talk) 16:41, 29 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Done LittlePuppers (talk) 23:46, 29 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]