Talk:Said Nursî/Archive 2

This is an archive of past discussions about Said Nursî. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

Changing sourced text

The text in the infobox lists one of Nursi's interests as "Revival of faith". The source for this is the following text:

"He [Nursi] went on to establish modern Turkey's most powerful faith movement." Robert W. Hefner, Sharia Politics: Islamic Law and Society in the Modern World, p 170. ISBN 0253223105

The text for the infobox was changed by ithinkiCahn to "Islamic fundamentalist revival". The source does not mention this at all so I reverted it to language that it more faithful to the reference. RookTaker (talk) 10:36, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

I doubt you looked at the sources, because if you had, you would see this on source 1: "His thought has birthed a major worldwide Islamic movement...", and source 2: "Nurculuk is a modern Islamic movement". Ithinkicahn (talk) 01:17, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Hi, I'm not sure I understand your point. The article has one source for Nursi's interest "Revival of faith" in the infobox. The source states that:

"He [Nursi] went on to establish modern Turkey's most powerful faith movement." Robert W. Hefner, Sharia Politics: Islamic Law and Society in the Modern World, p 170. ISBN 0253223105

I had a read of the entire page again and found no reference to "Islamic fundamentalist revival". As such I have reverted the text. RookTaker (talk) 07:33, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

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Our time in Said Nursi's thought

According to the words of Muhammad, "The world has a life span of 7000 years from the creation to the doomsday, 1000 - 1500 years of this was the amount to live after Muhammad.

I think these words can not be trusted, see this source. I suggest deleting this sentence or correcting it as fast as possible, since a lot of people might be confused or might make up a wrong mind about Islam. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm looking for the truth.

BThero (talk) 20:17, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Untitled

The article currently states that the birth date of Nursi is 1878. It specifies a link to a Turkish website as proof for this. However, according to Sukran Vahide in "Islam in Modern Turkey: An Intellectual Biography of Bediuzzaman Said Nursi" Nursi's birth date is 1877. This seems to be a more authoritative source so I will therefore change the birth date. RookTaker (talk) 00:00, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Surname of Said

Said Nursi's official name is "Said Okur", I think that this should be mentioned. Nursi is not an actual surname, it means something like "from Nurs" in Ottoman Turkish. 152.117.104.140 (talk) 10:01, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Unsourced statements

Instead of removing "citation needed" templates it would be better to put sources for these statements. Egeymi (talk) 19:24, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

His father Mirza and his mother Nuriye both were Kurdish origin.

In the Subtitle it says:

Early life

...

 "His father Mirza and his mother Nuriye both were Ahl al-Bayt (lineage of the Islamic prophet Muhammad)"

...

that does not correspond to reality.

People asked Saidi Nursi directly while he was alive, 'Are you a seyyid?' He responded, 'No, I am not, but I consider myself spiritually a seyyid.' Additionally, in numerous places in his works, he stated that he was Kurdish, saying things like 'I am a humble Bedouin Kurd.' 'We, Kurds, may be deceived but do not deceive.'

The given source is —that is a magazine— not reliable. He is of Kurdish origin as he states. 185.180.31.28 (talk) 08:31, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

deleting image

Regarding your deletion of the Image here https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Said_Nurs%C3%AE&diff=prev&oldid=1218287365, How is the image unencyclopedic and original research?

The image is just a depiction of what exists in the Supreme Sign book in the Risale-i Nur Collection which is a published collection There is no original research here I am sorry Hakikatco (talk) 07:08, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

deletion of image

@Meluiel

Regarding your deletion of the Image here https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Said_Nurs%C3%AE&diff=prev&oldid=1218287365, How is the image unencyclopedic and original research?

The image is just a depiction of what exists in the Supreme Sign book in the Risale-i Nur Collection which is a published collection There is no original research here I am sorry Hakikatco (talk) 07:08, 11 April 2024 (UTC) Hakikatco (talk) 05:10, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello! Thanks for starting this discussion.

The image is your personal interpretation of the concept, and shares very few similarities with the article's text. If you can provide adequate sources (with page numbers) that demonstrate that it is supposed to look as your AI image has depicted, then be my guest. Meluiel (talk) 09:02, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

@Meluiel

The book is online, You can see that the traveler is looking at the heavens first,

http://www.erisale.com/?locale=en&bookId=204&pageNo=130#content.en.204.131

then at the athmosphere

then at the earth

http://www.erisale.com/?locale=en&bookId=204&pageNo=130#content.en.204.135

then at the animals

then at the seas, oceans

http://www.erisale.com/?locale=en&bookId=204&pageNo=130#content.en.204.136

the page numbers are 131-139

THE RAYS Collection

Thanks for the reply & providing sources, and apologies for the delay in response.

In this case, I suspect the image falls foul of WP:RSPSCRIPTURE, which prohibits personal interpretation (in this case, a visual interpretation) of primary religious texts without appropriate secondary scholarly sourcing. Meluiel (talk) 17:29, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

I dont think it falls in that category, The Risale-i Nur collection is not a primary religious text, its Said Nursi's commentary on a primary religious text Hakikatco (talk) 00:57, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

The line between commentary and scriptorial reinterpretation is very blurred here; you can see I'm erring on the side of script, given that he's a faith leader and founder of a religious movement. Plus, you have not addressed the fact that the image is still your original interpretation of his writing. Meluiel (talk) 17:25, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Risale - i Nur is not a script as the WP:RSPSCRIPTURE talks about. WP:RSPSCRIPTURE describes a primary source a script like Bible, Quran which are believed to be scripts sent by God and therefore are primary sources among the Christians and Muslims

Risale-i Nur is a commentary on Quran like 100's other commentaries on Quran, it can be only considered as a secondary source in Islam and no one believes its a primary source.

The image is AI generated using Chatgpt by a prompt, there is no original research here , it just depicts a chapter from the Risale i Nur., I already responded to this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Said_Nurs%C3%AE#deleting_image

@Meluiel Hakikatco (talk) 20:43, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Regarding the source Tarihce-i Hayat.

@Hakikatco: In your edit summary for this edit of yours, you stated that Tarihce-i Hayat was not written by Said Nursi but by his students in 1958 (he died in 1960). However, when I checked Amazon [1] and Abebooks [2], they named the author Bediüzzaman Said Nursî. Isn't that the name of the subject of this article? Or did his students have the same name as him? Nevertheless, even if it was indeed his students who wrote it, the source still fails WP:IIS because they obviously had a vested interest in writing it, and thus it also fails WP:SOURCE because the policy tells us to "Base articles on reliable, independent, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy." — Kaalakaa ^(talk) 19:19, 27 April 2024 (UTC)