Talk:Saboten (song)

Requested move 17 October 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. (non-admin closure) © Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 03:49, 25 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Saboten (song) → Saboten
Saboten → Saboten (disambiguation)

– I know it's obscure and still a stub, but this article is the only use of Saboten on WP, and has been at Saboten since it was created in 2013 until it was incorrectly moved a few days ago, and therefore should be moved back to the plain undisambiguated name (Saboten). The recently created dab page, now at Saboten, lists two other supposed uses (Saboten Con and Saboten Bombers), but neither is named simply Saboten like this one is. These other two uses are now handled by a hatnote on this article, and the dab page should be moved to Saboten (disambiguation). В²C ☎ 05:11, 17 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose this Japanese-language song is unsourced and non-notable. Saboten is more likely in English speaking media to relate to the anime con: "Saboten is, by far, my favorite convention. I look forward to it every year" unquote. "Saboten is quickly turning into one of Arizona's better conventions" unquote. "Saboten is only a little over a month away" "Saboten is Phoenix's big ol' anime convention" In ictu oculi (talk) 09:38, 17 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

In fact are any of the song articles by this band notable? In ictu oculi (talk) 09:40, 17 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The binary question of notability is to be resolved in AfD discussions, not in RM discussions. Since the outcome of any RM discussion is to move or not move, we presume notability of the articles involved in those discussions. If you think the topic of this (or any) article is non-notable, then propose it be deleted accordingly. Why didn't you do that instead of renaming it? --В²C ☎ 20:22, 17 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This song has had "The topic of this article may not meet Wikipedia's notability guideline for music. (July 2013)" and "This article needs additional citations for verification. (July 2013)" tags on it since creation. That in itself would encourage looking at English books/media and Japan Wikipedia. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:46, 18 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ugh. In ictu oculi has gone about this move in a characteristically frustrating way, but now that they've created an article on Saboten (band), I see no reason to assume the song is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Both the band and song are notable; the song charted in Japan, and a cursory search turns up several Japanese sources covering the band (cf this). However, there's no way to tell or assume which if either is primary yet. It's likely there are other Japanese sources that could be used to build up both articles, which would be a more useful activity than just moving pages around.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:52, 19 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Ugh indeed. That said, the burden should be on proving that the new article makes the previous unique or primary use no longer primary. --В²C ☎ 19:59, 19 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

FWIW, since the move, the band and song have gotten roughly the same page views.[1] I'd say that qualifies.--Cúchullain ^t/c 14:50, 21 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

And hardly surprising, since that is what a look at Ja.wp or books would have suggested. Why would either of you have imagined that the main meaning of the Japanese word for cactus was this obscure song. In ictu oculi (talk) 16:47, 27 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]