Talk:SS Empire Endurance

Pre-FA comments

Sorry for taking a couple of days to get back to this. So, here are some comments:

• As I said on the WT:MILHIST page, the lead is short for an article of this length.
• Because there is an image available, even though it would most likely be fair use, you are almost certainly going to need to add an image for FA status.
• There are some completeness issues that may hamper you at FAC. For example, take a look at SMS Ostfriesland, an article of similar length currently at FAC. The construction section is much longer, even taking into account that this was a cargo vessel with no armament. Did anything happen to the ship between 1928 and 1940? What did she carry? Any accidents? Old news records can often be useful for information like this. Missing 12 years of the ship's history is going to be difficult when it comes to "comprehensiveness". This is especially obvious given the detail which follows on the last 15 or so months of the ship's life.
• Some issues with OR. For example, the article says "Alster would have been launched in 1927, as she was completed in February 1928.", while the source only says she was completed in February 1928.
• Why does "On 10 April, Alster was captured by the British destroyer HMS Icarus in Vestfjorden, north of Bodø. When intercepted the German crew made an unsuccessful attempt at scuttling the vessel, setting off one explosive charge." need five references? It doesn't seem particularly controversial... Several other places where there is a string of refs for a fairly simple statement...
• What makes #44 (Warsailors) a high-quality reliable source?

I honestly think you're going to have a difficult time taking this article through FAC, mostly based on the lack of completeness (relative to other ship articles) in the construction and early history sections. However, that's just my opinion - I may be wrong and it may fly through :) In any case, good luck and best wishes if you do decide to try for FA. Dana boomer (talk) 16:41, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the review, Danaboomer. I've been through The Times for the period that the ship was in service and have put all the info I can find into the article. As a bog-standard cargo ship, little was written about her normal commercial service.

Warsailors - I believe that this website is a WP:RS. The author of the website has researched WWII Norwegian merchant vessels extensively, and the website is their tribute to the Norwegian merchant seamen who lost their lives during WWII. As with all reliable sources, there may be the odd error though.

As for the OR, maybe Manxruler can check Miramar and get a launch date? It's unlikely that the ship was launched and completed in less than two months, but it is a possibility. Manxruler has stated that he will expand the article further from a book source.

Before the available image is added, the other ship in the picture needs to be identified. Mjroots (talk) 19:00, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

The thing about FAC is that it goes beyond WP:RS to require high quality reliable sources. Is the publisher of Warsailors a recognized expert in his field? Has this website been mentioned in books, peer-reviewed journal articles, etc? If you can't answer "yes" to one or both of these, you're going to have a very hard time proving HQRS at FAC. Dana boomer (talk) 19:36, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

A search of Google Books appear to suggest that warsailors.com has been used in a number of books. As for the pre-1940 stuff, I think we need German books relating to shipping. Manxruler (talk) 11:08, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

I've recently ordered a German book on the subject. We'll see if there's more to add from that. Manxruler (talk) 21:50, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Not all that much, it turns out. Manxruler (talk) 21:44, 30 April 2012 (UTC)