Talk:SMERSH

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the SMERSH article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Russia: History / Military High‑importance

	Russia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Russia, a WikiProject dedicated to coverage of Russia on Wikipedia. To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the project page, or contribute to the project discussion.RussiaWikipedia:WikiProject RussiaTemplate:WikiProject RussiaRussia articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the history of Russia task force.
	This article is supported by the Russian, Soviet, and CIS military history task force.

Espionage Mid‑importance

	SMERSH is within the scope of WikiProject Espionage, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of espionage, intelligence, and related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page, or contribute to the discussion.EspionageWikipedia:WikiProject EspionageTemplate:WikiProject EspionageEspionage articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Military history: Russian & Soviet

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion not met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion not met

Associated task forces:
/
	Russian, Soviet and CIS military history task force

Warning: active arbitration remedies

The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Balkans or Eastern Europe, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:

You must be logged-in to an extended confirmed account (granted automatically to accounts with 500 edits and an age of 30 days)

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

POV

they would be arrested, and tortured by Smersh, forced to sign fake confessions, put on a show trial, and either sent to the camps or shot. Smersh would also often be sent out to find and kill defectors, double agents, etc.

sounds POV. please justify, i am currently removing the lines --Nuttysocrates 07:21, 30 September 2005 (UTC) NuttySocrates[reply]

assassinations of nationalists Ukrainian nationalists, from UPA or UON 24.184.154.106 (talk) 13:56, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SMERSH agents infiltrated German-held territories, blowing up German rest facilities and assassinating commanders, knowing that the civilian population would suffer German reprisals. The civilian population would then become motivated to support and joined partisan groups, often run by SMERSH.

Are there any evidence of this statement? It sounds very stupid - if population after SMERSH' raid 'suffers German reprisals' (which effectively meant mass executions or sending for forced labour to Germany) how could they join partisan groups after that? Please indicate credible sources showing that SMERSH clandestine operations in fact were meant to ignite German reprisals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.99.73.7 (talk) 17:36, 9 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Since when ? Russian authorities cared about their own people military losses or otherwise ? 24.184.154.106 (talk) 13:54, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

4th Directorate of the NKGB USSR under Pavel Sudoplatov was responsible for terror and diversion Behind Enemy Lines not GUKR SMERSH. 24.184.154.106 (talk) 14:06, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I say Pavel Sudoplatov's NKGB 4th Directorate was responseble for that - sabotage behind enemy lines --MX 15:28, 17 February 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by MX360 (talk • contribs)

scientology connection

It looks like L_Ron_Hubbard may have issued a memo ordering his Sea_org "to invade the territory of Smersh".

http://www.clambake.org/archive/so/19690326-in.gif

http://clambake.org/archive/so/index.html

Does this warrant a mention?

I believe that there should be a "Popular Culture" section in the article which covers L. Ron Hubbard's insane lunacy in regards SMERSH. There are very few people who actually know of Hubbard's beliefs in that respect which is something of a shame because it is one of the more amusing, classic ways in which a real entity can morph in to fantasy entertainment and then in to conspiracy culture.

Hubbard's April 3rd, 1969 lunatic screed as he was being investigated for espionage and financial crimes in Briton included 'The US health societies, groups, foundations and agencies are all members of SMERSH which is an English takeover of the work of Clifford Beers to bring protection to mental patients. In 1948 a group in England calling itself the "World Federation of Mental Health" incorporated in Delaware, USA and began the Fascist psychiatric trend behind the face of "humane mental health".'

That is classic morphizing of real to entertainment to conspiracy and I think it should be covered in a new segment on the Wiki entry under Popular Culture. Damotclese (talk) 18:02, 6 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'll add that Ian Fleming died in 1964 and his novels were published from 1953 to 1966. Along came Hubbard who obviously read some of the novels and immediately labeled himself an expert in spies and espionage (as he always labeled himself an expert in everything else he ever read about) and he seized upon SMERSH as the powerful force that was working to stop him from committing domestic terrorism, treason, and financial crimes in Europe. Damotclese (talk) 18:07, 6 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

RRRecords

SMERSH were also a fairly influential experimental band in the mid to late 80s. I would think that it deserves at least a mention. What say you fine folks? ;-)

That should also be added to a "Popular Culture" section. I suppose if nobody else creates one, I will. Damotclese (talk) 18:08, 6 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

ascii art

lovely ascii art. this certainly is the encyclopedia built by slashdot. thank god none of you write real encyclopedias. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.137.223.153 (talk) 02:27, 17 December 2006 (UTC).[reply]

Armtog or Amtorg

The section "Activity overseas" mentions the commercial front organization "Armtorg". I am pretty sure that this is a mistake and that "Amtorg" is meant, and am changing it accordingly. Hi There 17:55, 16 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Louis Adamic

In the History section, the death of Louis Adamic is ascribed to the GRU but the WP Louis Adamic article claims his death as a suicide. This will need to be corrected or sourced, and if corrected, the entire structure of the paragraph needs to be reworked. Hi There 17:55, 16 July 2007 (UTC) $Insertformulahere$ [reply]

Badly needs overhaul

Lots of bold and unsupported claims with distinctly non-neutral favour.

Right. The article is completely unsourced.Biophys 03:02, 29 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I really doubt if the SMERSH "captured thousands of Allied soldiers" and forced them to disappear. Seems like propaganda to me, but then again, I am not too familiar with the SMERSH. I suppose that a few Allied soldiers may have been captured, but thousands? Doubtful. - XX55XX 02:04, 8 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Author's Note

In From Russia With Love, Ian Fleming said in an author's note that SMERSH still existed in 1956 and employed about 40,000 agents. Was he mistaken? Emperor001 13:21, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

He also said General Grubozaboyschikov was real and this entry says he wasn't.--Jack Upland (talk) 10:19, 9 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Timeline? (Katyn discrepancy)

Among the several puzzling (ludicrous?) statements included in this topic, there is a glaring contraddiction in the timeline. At first it's claimed that this alleged Smersh have been formed in 1943, and then it's indicated as responsable of the Katyn Massacre (1940!!!). An awfully bad topic, faulty in both form and substance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.220.148.63 (talk) 08:26, 13 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed that too. I have changed the heading of this section to make it less cryptic. Man with two legs (talk) 12:24, 3 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Parrish suggests that SMERSH could have been formed in late '42 or even earlier, but the date of 'official' creation was April 14th, '43 Borohachi (talk) 23:57, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Phonetics

The name is phonetically similar to the Russian words "смерч" (smerch) for tornado and "смерть" (smert) for death.

So what?--Jack Upland (talk) 05:04, 9 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Organisation Chart

"Radio games"???--Jack Upland (talk) 00:48, 9 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"Radio games". 50.27.189.83 (talk) 00:32, 9 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Vasiliyfinn!

Since you don't yet have a User talk page, I have to thank you here for the yeoman work you did to pull the history section of this article into intelligible shape. Молодец! Languagehat (talk) 20:41, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Reorganisation of the State Police agency (World War II)

NKVD did no't - ran the secret police responsible for political repression anynore. for the simple reason, the body responsible for it the NKVD's 3rd Directorate (Secret Political – СПУ/SPU), has been moved to the re-created NKGB with the same name and responsibility's. Two People's Commissariat's responsible same task??

After 1943 changes, the NKVD was responsible more for the administrative and economic affairs, protection of military educational institutions and critical industrial enterprises, prisons, prisoners of war camps, state, police and fire stations, finances and forest industry.
Forced labor camps known as (GUlag's).
To meet these requirements NKVD troops were used: internal troops, border troops, railway troops, escort troops, troops for protection rear of the Red Army ect. And of course the Counterintelligence Directorate (UKR Smersh) to work witch it NKVD troops.

THIS IS A SIMPLE TO CHECK, IF YOU COMPARE THE NKVD ORGANIZATION AT BEGINNING OF THE 1943 WITH THE END OF 1943, AND LOOK AT NKGB ORGANIZATION. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MX360 (talk • contribs) 23:45, 5 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

SMERSH tasks

Let's say 200 Soviet soldiers attack a German position. The attack fails and the Soviets retreat to their lines before the attack. Does the SMERSH (or its barrier troops) now have to open fire on their retreating troops. In the film "Enemy at the gates", the barrier troops do open fire on them and I was curious if this could actually happen. If possible, please add a source. Thank you Generalissimo Suvorov (talk) 11:05, 28 December 2015 (UTC)Suvorov[reply]

If you read the article Barrier troops, it says that they were to shoot those who retreat without command. - üser:Altenmann >t 16:35, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Order No. 227

Check the link above Ataman (talk) 16:00, 16 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Opening Line

Intro has "SMERSH" designated as an acronym. This is semantically false, so I've changed this to "Russian portmanteau." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.209.209.131 (talk) 21:24, 22 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Error in page

I don't know how to correct this, but this article links to SNK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNK which is a Japanese video games company. I think instead the link should be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_People%27s_Commissars for the "Sovnarkom, also as generic SNK". This is the correct article for this context. 81.103.95.22 (talk) 21:47, 4 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Секретарь ЦК Грузинской компартии Лаврентий Берия.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:00, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

SMERSH in 2022

BBC has reported on the group under the name SMERSH (with clear reference to the current organisation) to be active in Russia as of 2022. However, the edits for some reasons were removed.Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20230213192148/https://twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/1623939831091920897 Would it not make sense to have it here? Krispe13 (talk) 12:14, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Some soldiers wearing the logo does not mean it exists again. Nor is it notable. Mellk (talk) 12:24, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Censorship of SMERSH in 2023

Somebody has been deleting sections concerning Putin's reactivation of SMERSH, as confirmed by photos printed in Pravda. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.145.87.109 (talk) 22:19, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

please accept my apologies I deleted by mistake the big pershion of the article. Can anyone fix it. Please Ataman (talk) 18:01, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]