Talk:SABA (hygiene products)

Edit Request

Hi! I work for El Autobus, the marketing agency representing Saba US. We have been working with Essity, the parent company of Saba US, to ensure that all online information on the brand is accurate. Part of this project includes updating the Saba US Wikipedia page to be accurate and in line with the rest of the Essity brands' Wikipedia pages. The edits I am requesting to make have already been made under my handle (ElAutobus05) and reverted by moderators since I did not know about this "Edit Request" process.

Please kindly review the edits made by me and approve them. The edits made are all accurate, true, and contain references. I am not editing this page to be commercial or an ad - I am editing it to be accurate. The current Saba page is full of misinformation and random photographs pulled from the internet. All I'm trying to do is make the page accurate.

Thank you! ElAutobus05 (talk) 16:02, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

•  Administrator note I'm one of a few editors who have been assisting ElAutobus05 with their request; you can find more discussion on their talk page. The requested edit is this (diff from previous); it is a significant change and might be easier to take piece-by-piece. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 16:19, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
  • ElAutobus05 The preferred term is Wikipedia article, not the broader "page". 331dot (talk) 16:38, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
  • The portion that reads "Saba creates a range of products to support period and daily intimate care, from pads, liners, washes and wipes. The brand has announced that during 2023 they’ll be releasing period pants. Their products provide protection across a range of flows, fits, and needs." is a non-starter. Wikipedia is not interested in what the company itself announces. If you have independent reliable sources that discuss the release of a particular product and the significance of that occuring, please offer them. 331dot (talk) 16:40, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

    Can we remove that part then? So it reads, "Saba creates a range of products to support period and daily intimate care, from pads, liners, washes and wipes. Their products provide protection across a range of flows, fits, and needs." ElAutobus05 (talk) 16:42, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

    As Ivanvector suggests above, you will be much more likely to be effective here if you make one edit request at a time, for one piece at a time of what you want to see done, instead of one edit request for everything; it will be easier for editors to look at if they take it one part at a time. 331dot (talk) 16:55, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

    As to your question, there is likely some way to work a description of what the company does into the article(probably at the beginning). I would suggest taking this from the top down. What do you think that the opening of the article should be changed to? 331dot (talk) 17:00, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

    Hi! Could you please clarify what you mean? If you look at the revisions I'm proposing, the first line of the article states what the company does: "Saba is a brand of Essity, specializing in products for period and daily intimate care." ElAutobus05 (talk) 17:05, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

    I'm referring to the opening paragraphs of the article- the passage I mentioned you had placed further down in the article. 331dot (talk) 17:10, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

    Got it. Thank you for explaining this! How about:

    Saba® is a feminine care brand that creates a range of products to support period and daily intimate care, from pads, liners, washes and wipes. Their products provide protection across a range of flows, fits, and needs. Saba® is the only brand with SecureFit™ Technology. (citation) This allows the pad to adapt better to your body, making you feel more comfortable and secure.

    citation: https://www.mysaba.com/faq/securefit/

    Does this give you the information you need? Eli at ElAutobus (talk) 17:23, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

I apologize for being frank- as I am trying to help you- but that is straight marketing copy that is written as if it is speaking to potential customers("making you feel more comfortable"). Wikipedia articles must have a neutral point of view and be written in a very dry manner. I'm not necessarily proposing this, but the opening will need to be something like "Saba is a brand of feminine care products currently owned by Essity." That's it. Nothing describing the specific features of the company's products at this point(if at all, as this article is about the company not its products). 331dot (talk) 17:34, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

I understand. Thank you for your help. Can we leave it with the facts then?

Saba® is a feminine care brand that creates a range of products to support period and daily intimate care, from pads, liners, washes and wipes. Their products provide protection across a range of flows, fits, and needs. Eli at ElAutobus (talk) 17:53, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Agree Changes made per 331dot's suggestion.  Spintendo  18:50, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! When will I know if the page has been fully updated and if all changes were approved? Eli at ElAutobus (talk) 18:55, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

As has been said, you will need to pursue this one small change at a time, instead of one massive change, if you want volunteer editors to invest their time in reviewing your proposed changes. You may make a new request with the next change that you want to see. 331dot (talk) 19:22, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi, thank you for your help. I really appreciate it.

I'm worried about making multiple requests because as you can see by what I'm requesting, the ENTIRE article needs to change. All the information that is on the page currently is incorrect. There is not one single section, copy, reference, or image that we're asking to keep. So I'm worried that by submitting a lot of multiple requests, the article will end up looking like a pieced together Frankenstein with old, wrong information and snippets of the copy we submitted.

As you know, Saba is a child company of Essity and goes by many different names globally. The Saba US article should resemble https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libresse or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essity

All we are trying to do is update the US page so it's accurate. Eli at ElAutobus (talk) 19:31, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean by "US page". Wikipedia is a global project not limited to US citizens, with editors from all over the world. Perhaps you mean the English Wikipedia?

Wikipedia is a collaborative project with (largely) volunteer labor. You are free to disregard the advice you've been given and make a new edit request proposing everything that you want to do in one go- but that likely won't happen quickly. Extensive changes take time and patience. As has been said- and it may sound counterintuitive- one large change will likely take longer to review and implement than several smaller changes, because smaller changes can be reviewed more quickly by volunteers investing their time. A larger change requires more time to invest, which volunteers may not have in abundance. You may be an employee editing on company time, but everyone else is not, we are here in our free time.

If what you are really asking is to rewrite this from scratch(curious as to why, there seems to be a lot of good historical information here yet you say it's inaccurate) you would be better off creating and submitting a draft via Articles for Creation and say on the draft talk page that you would like to substitute your draft for the current article. You would, however, have the same issue in that it would likely take some time to do that. There is no quick fix here. You've already proposed one overly promotional text, because you are unfamiliar with what we are looking for in article content. This is what collaboration and discussion is for- to arrive at a consensus as to what the article should say. This will include people more familiar with guidelines than you are. 331dot (talk) 20:13, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi! Thank you for your help and explanations. We'll look into "Articles for Creation" and follow your instructions. Thank you.

To answer your questions:

I say "Saba US" because "Saba" is a brand name shared in the MX, US, and other markets. The "US" specifies which product and market this information is about. This specific page should be addressing "Saba" the US-only product. Again, Saba is a child brand of Essity. To have one single "Saba" page is not accurate as each market has different historical information, different products, and different achievements, marketing campaigns, collaborations, etc. Saba MX is very different from Saba US.

The historical information listed in this current article was not provided by Essity or Saba, does not seem to have been fact checked and is not a true representation of the Saba US brand today. There is also a lot of information that pertains to other markets such as the sponsorship of the Norwegian women's soccer team. Saba US did not do this. Eli at ElAutobus (talk) 20:23, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Has my edit request been closed? How do I know where I am in the process? We can wait patiently to have this reviewed. I don't want to cause more confusion or work for anyone by going the "Articles for Creation" route. Eli at ElAutobus (talk) 20:32, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Yes, your edit request was closed by the editor that implemented the edit we discussed. You will need to start a new request. 331dot (talk) 20:36, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi, I translated/added to this article from the Norwegian article on the company SABA (no:A/S SABA) as it began there. That is why it mostly covers the history of the company itself in Norway versus focusing on it as a brand name used in the US or other markets today. I didn't want to name the article A/S SABA in English for the same reason inc., corp., etc. aren't used in article titles.

No, the historical information was not provided by the company itself since it was put together by Wiki volunteers and is not inherently US-focused. If you want to focus on SABA as a brand it may be better to have a separate section for that or a separate article about its use as a brand. flod logic (talk) 09:20, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

References

Updating article

Hi!

SABA is a brand owned by Essity that has many different versions of its brand across different markets. In some markets it goes by Libresse, in others Nosotras, and in others SABA. It is not accurate to have one umbrella Wikipedia article for "SABA" as "SABA" the brand name exists in the US, MX, and other markets. SABA in the US is different from SABA in MX. The brands have different historical information, different products available, etc.

I work for El Autobus, the agency that represents SABA US. We would like to update this article to accurately represent SABA in the US.

The current article, while very thorough, is not an accurate representation of the brand in the US market. It has incorrect information. For example, SABA US did not sponsor the Norwegian women's soccer team.

The proposed copy below is what we would like the article to be replaced with. This copy has been fact checked and approved by Saba and Essity. All we are trying to do is keep the consumers and public informed.

Here is the proposed copy:

[Section 1] Saba Saba is a brand of Essity, specializing in products for period and daily intimate care. Saba is a global brand, operating under a number of different names in local markets - Bodyform, Nana, Nuvenia, Libresse, Nosotras, Saba, Libra. [1]

Essity (formerly SCA), which is the parent company of Saba, was founded in Sweden in 1929 by Ivar Kreuger as a paper packaging company. The company is a global hygiene and health company, conducting sales in approximately 150 countries with a mission to improve well-being. [2]

[Section 2] Brand purpose According to their website, their purpose is to break V-Zone taboos to free women from stigmas. [3] Their brand platform is called ‘Live Fearless.’ [4] This year, 2023, the brand is in the process of updating its identity, starting with its logo, to move away from the pink bows and sparkles that perpetuated category stereotypes and towards a brand identity that better reflected its taboo-breaking purpose [5]. [Section 3] Products Saba creates a range of products to support period and daily intimate care, from pads, liners, washes and wipes. Their products provide protection across a range of flows, fits, and needs. [6]

[Section 4] Marketing Over the last several years, Saba has made a name for itself with its taboo-busting advertising campaigns on topics surrounding women’s bodies and health [7]. The brand often uses creativity to subvert shame and break down stigma, in line with its purpose [8]. Given that these campaigns push boundaries and contain intimate moments, several have caused some controversy at launch. Despite having to work hard to overturn media bans and get their films broadcast, Saba has shown how empathy can rid women of shame and make them feel understood. The campaigns have moved and inspired many, and have been awarded at shows like Cannes including honor like the Glass Lion, which promotes positive cultural change affecting gender inequality and imbalance. [9,10,11,12] In 2018, Saba showed red period blood in their #bloodnormal campaign for the first time ever in advertising. The campaign included a range of other activations to get period blood more seen within culture. [14,15]

In October 2021, Saba launched #wombstories, a global campaign designed to shine a light on the unheard, unseen experiences of what it means to have a womb: the complex rollercoaster of love and hate, pleasure and pain. The campaign touches on a number of different experiences - endometriosis, menopause, miscarriage, IVF, first periods and invites the audience to share their own #wombstories. [18] The brand then followed with their taboo-busting activation called #painstories, which was created to help tackle the gender pain gap. Using real, visceral descriptions of endometriosis, Saba created a tool called the Pain Dictionary to help sufferers recognize and express their chronic pain.

[Section 5] Project V Project V is the name of the change-driving initiative launched by the brand in 2020 to support the well-being of women across the world. As part of Project V, the brand is committed to listening to its audience - they have an ongoing research helping project, designed to better understand taboos, called the Global V-Taboo Tracker. They also represent diverse experiences in their communications and support women’s intimate health by partnering with charities and NGOs. Project V is an Essity’s global initiative and brands across the world, including Saba, have been taking part: In Colombia, Nosotras education program is helping young girls understand how their bodies and minds change as they grow. The campaign has been running for 35 years, reaching 1,500,000 girls every year. In Mexico, Saba is working with schools to help young girls open up about taboos like menstruation and pregnancy in adolescence. In China, the brand partnered with the Alibaba Charity, donating 30,000 products to female medical workers, with an additional 6,000 going to hospitals in Xiaogan during the COVID-19 pandemic. In the UK, Bodyform successfully campaigned for broadcast authorities to overturn their ban on allowing period blood to be depicted as red on broadcast TV. In France, the launch of their campaign ‘Viva La Vulva’ saw over 10,000 petitions for a ban, sparking the even bigger #JesoutiensNana movement to defend the campaign. In Italy, the Essity team participated in the Round Table Conference with the Minister of Gender Equality, aiming to break barriers on Menstrual Hygiene. [19]

[Section 6] Sustainability Saba has been working with Life Cycle Assessment (LCA) since the early 1990s to assess the potential environmental impact of their products through the entire lifestyle. Their goal is to reduce the brand’s carbon footprint by 30% by 2030. The brand has been working to reduce the environmental impact in its new products through smart design and materials. For example, their pulp suppliers use wood fibres that come from carefully managed sources. Saba has also been focused on cutting down waste. They’ve been making their products thinner and reducing their packaging in order to do so. In 2023, the brand will introduce a line of reusable period pants in a push towards more sustainable and environmentally friendly products. [20]

[Section 7] Women+ In 2021, the brand started using the term women+ to refer to its audience. By adopting this language, they strive to include anyone who uses their products. The + sign is intended to capture people beyond just self-identifying women [21]

[Section 8] Sources [1]https://www.mysaba.com/ [2] https://www.essity.com/company/essity-at-a-glance/ [3]https://www.mysaba.com/our-world/project-v/ [4]https://www.marketingweek.com/bodyform-aims-to-empower-women-with-live-fearless-campaign/ [5]https://creativepool.com/interbrand/projects/libresse-power-to-the-v-for-essity-femcare-libresse-also-known-as-bodyform-nana-nosotras-nuvenia-and-saba [6] https://www.mysaba.com/shop-our-products/ [7]https://www.creativereview.co.uk/libresse-ad-womb-stories/ [8]https://www.campaignlive.co.uk/article/praise-vulva-bodyform-amv-used-creativity-subvert-shame/1663234 [9]https://www.lbbonline.com/news/viva-la-joyful-rebellion-and-la-vulva [10]https://www.ccn.com/nearly-nsfw-viva-la-vulva-ad-triggers-prudish-outrage-in-france/ [11] https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/bodyform-redfit-campaign-periods-in-sport_uk_575175abe4b0b23a261a286b [12] https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/bodyform-redfit-campaign-periods-in-sport_uk_575175abe4b0b23a261a286b [13]https://www.lbbonline.com/news/how-immortal-winner-blood-normal-changed-society-and-changed-advertising [14] https://www.flare.studio/foundation-projects/blood-normal-bursary/ [15]https://www.lbbonline.com/news/bodyforms-viva-la-vulva-campaign-launches-in-the-uk [16]https://www.creativereview.co.uk/viva-la-vulva-bathroom-takeover/ [17]https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/bodyform-womb-stories-periods-taboo-stigma-advert-a9599346.html [18]https://www.campaignlive.co.uk/article/bodyform-reveals-painstories-break-silence-around-endometriosis-womens-pain/1708769 [19]https://www.mysaba.com/our-world/project-v/ [20]https://www.mysaba.com/our-world/our-eco-promise/ [21]https://www.mysaba.com/our-world/project-v/ Eli at ElAutobus (talk) 20:56, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

I didn't realize you did not add the edit request template the first time, so I did for you. Be advised that it is immaterial if the company approved this text or not. Their approval of the article content is not required. Our only interest is in summarizing independent reliable sources. I'm still kinda confused as to what you are trying to do. Are you writing about a single company, different parts of the same company, or different companies? If you are writing about a different part of the company, that doesn't necessarily mean this article needs to be wiped out. There are ways to write about it without wiping this out. 331dot (talk) 21:03, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Article was written about the original company

Hi, I translated/added to this article from the Norwegian article on the company SABA (no:A/S SABA) – it was founded and based there before later becoming a part of several other companies in turn. It mostly covers the history of SABA in Norway for that reason versus focusing on it as a brand name used in the US or other markets today. That's also why it includes the "random" pictures, from Norwegian historical museums, of its founders and products.

I didn't want to name the article A/S SABA in English for the same reason inc., corp., etc. aren't used in article titles. The name may be used by Essity as a brand in multiple countries today but I feel that should get a separate section (or potentially article). flod logic (talk) 09:34, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi! I've taken this information back to the Essity/Saba team. We really appreciate all the volunteer work that has been done to bring this page to life in the first place, thank you. I will try to rework the Wikipedia article I've submitted so it includes more of the original historical information you've written. I agree that maybe the different SABA brands (US, MX, Colombia, etc) need to be categorized as their own sections instead of making this SABA page the US one and that's it. Creating this will take some time though since it'll have to touch several global Essity teams.

In the meantime, we would all really appreciate it if we could incorporate the information I provided into the article that already exists. There is a lot of good information there about the brand as it is today that would be beneficial to have. Eli at ElAutobus (talk) 13:59, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Since this article is about the Norwegian company A/S SABA and its history (the vast majority of which is prior to its ownership by Essity in 2017), I would recommend creating a draft for a new article, with a title like Saba (brand), and focusing on the Essity brand there. It could then be linked to from this article. flod logic (talk) 15:58, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! Will work on this. Eli at ElAutobus (talk) 15:33, 7 August 2023 (UTC)