Talk:Ryland Davies/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Utopes (talk · contribs) 23:13, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I'll be taking a look at this now. Feedback and comments to follow; I'm looking forward to reading this! Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 23:13, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Gerda Arendt: Hi there; I wanted to let you know I've taken a look at this article and have left the following feedback. Please let me know what you think about these changes, and we can go from there. Thank you! Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 00:14, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the review! Nevermind the long time, - when he died he appeared on ITN and DYK, so got the attention right then. Just after investing some energy into the expansion, I wanted to know if it could also be a GA. You seem to be rather unfamiliar with the topic of opera singing, which makes your feedback especially valuable. - I may have forgotten details since I expanded the article, and am no native speaker of English. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:18, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Gerda Arendt: Hello, I've gone through the article again, as it looks like you've addressed most of my points! I'm leaning towards approval for this GA, although I wanted to firstly respond about the anecdote regarding Montserrat Caballé. As its already covered in Caballé's article, when Ryland only had a minor role in that position, I don't think it's necessary to include the mirrored information in Davies' as well. As you mentioned it being helpful to link to colleagues, Caballé is linked very early in the Glyndebourne section, which I agree can be a guide for people wanting to learn about one of the greatest singers of all time. Because the anecdote is directly referring her and not Davies, the link seems sufficient as is. How would you go about bringing it up, hypothetically? Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 18:25, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm happy as it is. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:48, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Gerda Arendt: Sounds good then! I think that addresses all of my points I had. Thank you for your participation! I'll go ahead and mark this as approved. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 19:31, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

Looking at the date on this, I'm sorry you had to wait so long for this to be processed, as his death was very recent at the time of this nomination. I'll see if there's anything I can do on my end, but in the meantime I'll get into this now.

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
"During his studies, he appeared in Manchester, as Paris in Gluck's Paride ed Elena." - what was Davies studying? Also, it's unclear what "appeared" is in reference to. I'm inferring that its about Davies appearing as a singer, to which his role was "Paris" in Gluck's opera. But because this terminology is used many times, it would be good to be specific as to what "appear" means in this context, especially as the first time it comes up in the body.
"studied voice" added, clarified that Cox is his teacher (not another student at the same time), added "on the opera stage" to "appear". "appear" and "perform" are the two verbs used for what opera singers do on stage, - once that's established, "sing" and "play" are acceptable synonyms, but it's key that an opera singer does both. --GA
Thank you; that clears it up! Done Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 18:07, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"In 1964 made his professional debut, at the Welsh National Opera in Cardiff as Almaviva in Rossini's The Barber of Seville." - professional what? This sentence is already pretty long and should likely be broken into two, which this opportunity can be used to talk about Davies making a professional debut [as an opera singer].
I'm a bit recuctant to change that, because "professional" only means "after completing his formal education" and to add that wwould be clumsy, no? --GA
Fair enough; I might have been tripped up by the comma after the claim (which ended at "[he] made his professional debut"). I moved the comma forward to make the thought more continuous. The "professional" part is fine in that regard, so I'll mark this Done as resolved. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 18:07, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (reference section): b (inline citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):
Reference #10 is a link to a search engine (which is broken?) showing no results, and is not reliable.
Sigh, the archive was changed. I hope it works now. --GA
Fixed now! Done Thanks for that. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 18:07, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
"Davies studied at the Royal Manchester College of Music with Frederic Cox, who remained a lifelong friend." - is it important to mention that Cox is a lifelong friend in this way? If this is a chronological study, breaking away to say "Cox remained a lifelong friend" disrupts the timeline. It seems that saying the two studied together is enough of a mention here.
see comment further up --GA
Seen, looks good Done. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 18:07, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Davies had a long career at the Glyndebourne Festival, where he began in the chorus in 1964, then sang supporting roles such as the Major domo in Der Rosenkavalier by Richard Strauss in 1965, alongside Teresa Żylis-Gara in the title role and Montserrat Caballé, conducted by John Pritchard; he performed as a Sailor in Purcell's Dido and Aeneas and two roles in Mozart's Die Zauberflöte in 1966." - This sentence has 4 commas and a semicolon currently, which makes this a really long run-on thought. As an extension, for a lot of this paragraph in the parts that list Davies' career performances, it's really hard to read between all the wikilinks and names that only show up once throughout the article. It states the opera title, the full cast, the conductors, who it was staged by, etc, when this should probably be reduced in size in some way. The Glyndebourne section, specifically, really needs to be sticking to just content about Davies.
I'll try to split a sentence or two. Sorry, I disagree about leaving out colleagues, directors and conductors. The people he worked with are valuable information. Some will be known to readers without a link. - A question in this context: there's a nice anecdote of him and Montserrat Caballé (one of the greatest singers of all times). It's in her article. I cautioned against having it in his article for two reasons: I was afraid that DYK would grab that incidence in which he played a minor role (of spontaneous reaction more than of performing), and because he played only a minor role in it. The first reason is over. Do you think it shoulld go to his article? --GA
Resolved as per up above. The sentence splitting has been massively helpful to improve smooth reading, and the names of colleagues and conductors are well organized within the section. I believe this can be considered Done.
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
The article is neutral, as it primarily lists a lot of Davies' work and leaves the opinions to the music critics, listed in the article. The first part of "Life and career" called Davies a "keen rugby player", which I've gone ahead and removed keen as the message still gets across without it.
Done Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 18:07, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.:
Article is stable.
It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
A suitable image exists with no problems.
Overall:
Pass/Fail:
The article covers everything it needs to! I wish this could have turned out to be more of a timely review process after the November submission, but hopefully what's been said is still suitable.
Please check if my responses make sense to you. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:18, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They did, yes. That should be everything I have to add here, so I'm happy to approve this. Congrats! Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 19:32, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]