Talk:Rudy Hartono/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Mike Christie (talk · contribs) 02:28, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

I'll review this. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:28, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

Image is appropriately tagged. Sources are reliable; I'm unable to fully evaluate a couple of the non-English ones but I see no red flags. One source question below.

• The citations to newspapers should give the dates and page numbers in the citations too -- I know they're linked but if those links break a reader has to have a way to track down the cited information.
• What makes bwfmuseum.isida.pro a reliable source? Their about page does not inspire confidence.
• The "Achievements" section is unsourced.
• "to parents Mr and Mrs Zulkarnain Kurniawan": we don't use "Mr" and "Mrs"; I would make this "his father's name was Zulkarnain Kurniawan" and leave out his mother as we know nothing about her.
• "His sister Utami Dewi is a five-time national champion and former Indonesia Uber Cup team member": specify that she is a badminton champion; most readers won't know what the Uber Cup is.
• "The family lives in Jalan Basuki Rachmat": "lives" or "lived"?
• "In 1964, he entered his first tournament at the Surabaya's junior championship when he was 12 and won": he was born in 1949, so he wasn't 12 in 1964.
• "after defeating Sture Johnsson and his senior Muljadi": what do you mean by "senior" here?

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:52, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

Stvbastian: just checking that you're planning to work on this? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:01, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Oahid: Hi Oahid, i just nominated Rudy Hartono article to Good article criteria. Since your English better than me, i hope you can help to improve this article based on the points above. Point #2: bwfmuseum.isida.pro, the website is a reliable source. Because it was published by the governing body of international badminton Badminton World Federation. Thank you. Stvbastian (talk) 02:31, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi Stvbastian, thanks will work on the points raised by Mike. Oahid (talk) 09:29, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

@Mike Christie:, had made the necessary edits/changes as per requested, please see below for more info:

• The citations to newspapers should give the dates and page numbers in the citations too -- I know they're linked but if those links break a reader has to have a way to track down the cited information.

-> add the dates and page numbers as recommended where available.

• What makes bwfmuseum.isida.pro a reliable source? Their about page does not inspire confidence.

-> As per mentioned by Stvbastian, bwfmuseum.isida.pro, was published by Badminton World Federation, the governing body of international badminton. Even though it might looks a bit unprofessional, it is definitely legit.

• The "Achievements" section is unsourced.

-> added in all the sources as per feedback.

• "to parents Mr and Mrs Zulkarnain Kurniawan": we don't use "Mr" and "Mrs"; I would make this "his father's name was Zulkarnain Kurniawan" and leave out his mother as we know nothing about her.

-> change it to "He is the son of Zulkarnain Kurniawan and the third child of eight siblings in the family." and left out the "unknown" mother.

• "His sister Utami Dewi is a five-time national champion and former Indonesia Uber Cup team member": specify that she is a badminton champion; most readers won't know what the Uber Cup is.

-> change it to former Indonesia national team member instead, a more layman and generic term.

What I meant was that a reader won't know what sport she's a national champion of. How about "His sister Utami Dewi is a five-time national badmintonchampion and former Indonesia national team member"? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:59, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

• "The family lives in Jalan Basuki Rachmat": "lives" or "lived"?

-> amend to they "lived" there instead of "lives".

• "In 1964, he entered his first tournament at the Surabaya's junior championship when he was 12 and won": he was born in 1949, so he wasn't 12 in 1964.

-> apologies for the typo, had changed it to 1961.

• " after defeating Sture Johnsson and his senior Muljadi": what do you mean by "senior" here?

-> change it to compatriot instead of senior for better clarity.

I've struck most points above; one left. Earwig finds a duplicated phrase, "He is one of the most famous players in the history of the sport and is considered to be one of the greatest badminton players of all time", in this newspaper article, but per the article history dates they copied it from Wikipedia. Spotchecks:

• FN 7 cites "Hartono was born on 18 August 1949 as Nio Hap Liang in Surabaya. He is the son of Zulkarnain Kurniawan and the third child of eight siblings in the family. His sister Utami Dewi is a five-time national champion and former Indonesia national team member. The family lived in Jalan Basuki Rachmat and owned tailoring and dairy farming businesses". As far as I can see the source only supports the first two sentences; you need the Suryadinata source for the rest.
• FNs 2 & 8 cite "After leaving his father's club, Hartono would later play for the much bigger Rajawali Club where many good Indonesian badminton players were trained. At age 15, he won the national junior championship." The source has "only later did he join the Rajawali Club where many good Indonesian badminton players were trained"; this is too closely paraphrased.
• FN 28 cites "In his attempt to win an 'official' world championships, Hartono participated in the 1980 IBF World Championships held in Jakarta and managed to reach the final where he would meet his successor Liem Swie King. In a final that lacked intensity, Hartono prevailed in two straight games with the score of 15-9, 15-9." Verified.
• FN 33 cites 'After the competition, Hartono announced his retirement, saying "I believe I have to retire now... Actually, I was already retired. But this was the Thomas Cup and my country needed me and because I live in Indonesia and I love Indonesia, I must do what they ask."' Verified.
• FN 38 cites "In the late 70s and early 80s, age began to catch up to Hartono and he started losing matches. This resulted in his depression. He credits a preacher for his "conversion experience" to Christianity during his mid-30s. Later, the death of Svend Pri in 1983 prompted Hartono to preach about Jesus to others." The source doesn't talk about age, and doesn't say he had depression -- the comparison to Pri doesn't mean Hartono had depression, though he was clearly upset at his loss. There's also nothing I can see about a preacher converting him or about him preaching to others.
• FN 23 cites "In 1981, he would win his maiden Japan Open title after beating his compatriot Lius Pongoh in the final.": the source doesn't say it was his first title; I would add a separate source for that if you can but it's a minor point.
• FN 12 cites "In 1975, in search of his eighth consecutive title and the chance to break Erland Kops’s record of seven, Hartono would once again face the challenge of his archrival, Svend Pri, who he had beaten before in the 1970 and 1972 finals, but this time he was not able to fend off the Dane’s attack and fell to a 11-15, 14-17 defeat." Verified.

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:59, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

I was considering failing this because of the spotcheck, and after thinking about it some more decided to try one more spotcheck. Unfortunately I found multiple overlaps with text from this page; it appears much of this was added before the editors working on this nomination got involved. See here for the Earwig comparison. I'm going to fail this; this material will have to be removed or rewritten before renominating. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 14:50, 11 September 2022 (UTC)