Talk:Royal badges of England

A fact from Royal badges of England appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 21 June 2013 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the House of Plantagenet derives its name from a royal heraldic badge used by Geoffrey of Anjou and his descendants, in the shape of a common broom plant (planta genista)?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2013/June.

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Poorly worded phrase

"a Black bull of Clarence (from the de Clare family, from which the Yorkists derived their right to the throne)"

This reads as though the House of York gained a claim on the throne through the de Clares, which is untrue. They claimed the throne through descent from Edward III. Urselius (talk) 13:04, 26 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Poorly worded it is and will be fixed. The de Clares bit was clearly misleading. Thank you for pointing it out!

However for clarification: the House of York was descendent from Lionel of Antwerp, 1st Duke of Clarence, Edward III's second son; through Philippa, 5th Countess of Ulster. This lineage, although from the maternal side, was considered by the Yorks themselves as the senior claim to the throne. In conjunction with descent in the paternal line from Edmund of Langley, 1st Duke of York, who was Edward III's fourth son. Edward III himself choose close maternal inheritance over more distant paternal inheritance when he claimed the throne of France from his mother, who was the French king's sister, and eventually opposed the succession of Philip, Count of Valois (later King Philip VI), who was the king's cousin. This is contrast to the Lancastrians who was (shocked gasp) descended from John of Gaunt, 1st Duke of Lancaster, Edward III's third son. The York's case was greatly helped by the fact that they were descended from both lines, as was personified by Richard of York, 3rd Duke of York. And the Yorks did as much as they can heraldically or otherwise to emphasise this fact, and their seniority over the Lancastrians.

Notwithstanding all of this, the black bull was an important symbol of the Yorks, and especially for Edward IV, who sometimes used the bull as a royal supporter (and badge). Curiously another royal badge/royal supporter of Edward IV and the Yorks; was the white lion of March (also a maternal inheritance), who takes precedence over the black bull. He used the white lion on his personal seal before he became king (as Earl of March) (Seal of Edmund Mortimer (Lionel of Clarence's son in law)), and used it after when he was king.

Thank you again for pointing this out. Best Regards, Sodacan (talk) 15:55, 26 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Victoria badges

Hi Sodacan, nice article. these are the only officially assigned badges since 1707. Refs: A.C. Fox-Davis. Art of Heraldry, Encyclopedia of Armory. ISBN 0 906223 34 2. Plate CXIV and Page 330. "The royal arms of Great Britain, as determined by the warrant in the reign of Queen Victoria". (pg 330): "These badges, which appear on the Sovereign's warrant, are never assigned to any other member of the Royal Family, of whom the Prince of Wales is the only one who rejoices in the possession of officially assigned badges".

crowned rose
crowned thistle
crowned harp
(new) crowned trefoil
(new) conjoined rose, thistle, and trefoil
(new) crowned shield carrying the device of the Union Jack
(new) uncrowned, on a mound vert, a dragon passant gules, charged with a label of three points argent.
(new) crowned cypher VR ("within the Garter")
(new) crowned cypher VR ("without the Garter")

There is a lot of important ACF-D info on most of these (new) badges. Will you be re-creating these six new badges? Ta Steve. Stephen2nd (talk) 13:17, 7 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Elizabeth II badge

See also: "Although the Sovereigns of the House of Windsor (this dynastic name was adopted by Royal Proclamation on 17th June 1917) have used various old royal badges only one or two new badges have been adopted that for Wales and the following badge for the House of Windsor, which was approved by King George VI on 28th July 1938:

On a Mount Vert the Round Tower of Windsor Castle argent, masoned sable, flying thereon the Royal Standard, the whole within two branches of oak fructed or, and ensigned with the Imperial Crown.

(J.P. Brooke-Little, 1954, Boutell's Heraldry, Frederick Warne: London and New York, pages 216-217). Stephen2nd (talk) 19:00, 7 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Suggest delete all images of monarchs

All or most of the images up to Henry V are anachronistic and virtually useless as guides to likenesses or period dress, suggest we replace with contemporary images. But, can't see the purpose of such images. This article is about badges - other images distract from that purpose. So I suggest the first column with images of monarchs be removed entirely.(Lobsterthermidor (talk) 16:48, 29 March 2016 (UTC))[reply]

Royal Oak

Does the Royal Oak or a sprig of oakleaves count as a royal badge of Charles II? The Oak tree with three crowns occurs on commemorative medals of Charles II (I own one, it has the royal oak with three crowns on the reverse with the sun's rays revealed from behind clouds and the inscription "Royall Oake" - on the obverse are Charles II's full heraldic arms and monogram 'CII') and sprigs of oakleaves were worn on Charles II's birthday in celebration of the Restoration. The wearing of oakleaves is a direct equivalent of the earlier Angevin wearing of sprigs of broom. Charles II's personal "George" (jewelled insignia of the Order of the Garter) incorporates oak leaves. Urselius (talk) 09:25, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]