Talk:Royal Foundation

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On 22 September 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to The Royal Foundation of the Prince and Princess of Wales. The result of the discussion was Moved to Royal Foundation.

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Article name

The name of the charity starts with 'The', but is this correct? I really am not sure as it looks clumsy. See Diana, Princess of Wales Memorial Fund where the 'The' is dropped from the article name. Both articles can't be named correctly. John a s (talk) 06:57, 13 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

WP:THE seems to imply that the The should be used if it is part of the official name, but it is not the best written guideline. MilborneOne (talk) 17:18, 13 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned references in The Royal Foundation

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of The Royal Foundation's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Together-2016":

From Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge: Samuelson, Kate (25 August 2017). "How Princes William and Harry Are Carrying on Causes Close to Princess Diana's Heart". Time magazine. Archived from the original on 7 June 2018. Retrieved 24 May 2018.
From Prince Harry, Duke of Sussex: Samuelson, Kate (25 August 2017). "How Princes William and Harry Are Carrying on Causes Close to Princess Diana's Heart". Time magazine. Archived from the original on 7 June 2018. Retrieved 24 May 2018.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 01:22, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 22 September 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Royal Foundation. Consensus developed on the alternate title due to WP:THE. As for the other organisations, they may be moved or discussed independently of this discussion. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 12:46, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Royal Foundation → The Royal Foundation of the Prince and Princess of Wales – The new title, I believe, would be most accurate as the present title was retired in 2020 itself upon the exit of the Duke and Duchess of Sussex from the Foundation. In that case, the title "The Royal Foundation of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge" would have been the most accurate page title as that was the charity's name from 2020 until September 9, 2022. I thought it best to put up the matter on the talk page for discussion before the move is put into force. I mean good faith and am aiming at accuracy and relevancy. MSincccc (talk) 07:46, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Weak oppose per WP:CONCISE/WP:SHORTFORM, unless it's proven that the proposed name is more common than the current name. estar8806 (talk) ★ 23:59, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. We don't use "official" names - we use what's most commonly used which still looks to be just "Royal Foundation". Even the foundation seems to just use the short form.[1]. DeCausa (talk) 07:27, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose as the official name has changed a few times but the general brand idea has stayed the same. Killuminator (talk) 09:28, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Move to Royal Foundation per WP:THE. The logo doesn't include the definite article. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:11, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
True. Support move to Royal Foundation. DeCausa (talk) 13:25, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@DeCausa If its just that "The" needs to be removed from the page title, then we had rather not proceed with the page move. Its unnecessary and actually not necessary given that the page's name has been "The Royal Foundation" for so many years right since its inception even when it was still referred to as "Royal Foundation" in media. No concern regarding this was brought up for more than a decade then not now as well. MSincccc (talk) 15:45, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I don't really see the point your making. It's what editors think now about what the article name should be that matters.DeCausa (talk) 15:49, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Weak oppose But the foundation's name remains "The Royal Foundation of the Prince and Princess of Wales". Its just that the website name and the more commonly used name is Royal Foundation. But having the page's current name as it is doesn't make much of a difference @DeCausa@Necrothesp. MSincccc (talk) 15:42, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
MSincccc, please read WP:COMMONNAME. The "official" name of an article subject doesn't determine the article name. DeCausa (talk) 15:46, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@DeCausa I know that. That's why I am saying that the lead will not change but the page name can be changed to "Royal Foundation" if it garners enough support in the upcoming week. Let's wait for other top contributors. I am the third all time highest contributor to the page after Bettydaisies and Keivanf. MSincccc (talk) 15:49, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
To be frank, I have no idea what point you're making. You've lost me. DeCausa (talk) 16:01, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
See my reply below. I support the page being moved to "Royal Foundation". The lead however remains the same as the Foundation's official name has been "The Royal Foundation of the Prince and Princess of Wales" since 9 September, 2022 MSincccc (talk) 16:04, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Necrothesp "The" is necessary here if its WP:THE that you are referring to. MSincccc (talk) 15:46, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No it isn't. If even its logo doesn't use the definite article then it's completely unnecessary. It's commonly referred to in running text as "the" Royal Foundation, not "The" Royal Foundation. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:49, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Necrothesp We are referring specifically to a single organization. Also it has been like this since 2009 when the Foundation was launched. So no point in making changes now. It will only change it's name after William's accession. I prefer not getting into a war of words or an edit war with you both. Thank you MSincccc (talk) 15:53, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure why you think any of that is relevant to WP:THE. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:54, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Would you mind closing this discussion? @Necrothesp I think we have reached a conclusion. No change. At least for now until any future debate arises. MSincccc (talk) 15:56, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I can't close it. I've contributed. And I'm still advocating a move to Royal Foundation. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:57, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Then I had support you. But the lead does not change only page name changes. The official name is one and all. Agree @Necrothesp? MSincccc (talk) 15:58, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I don't really see the point of dropping "The" for this page while keeping it for The Prince's Trust, The Prince's Foundation, etc. I think a collective move covering all the charities set up by these royals could be more beneficial and result in a consistent format (with regards to whether we should keep "The" or not). Keivan.f^Talk 04:04, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- They should be renamed too. -- Necrothesp (talk) 08:31, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  @Necrothesp The Foundation's official name remains "The Royal Foundation of the Prince and Princess of Wales". Hence that cannot be changed( you can't change the foundation's name) But the page can be renamed though as @Keivan.f I don't see much of a potential move now that you all have disagreed with the page's possible new title being "The Royal Foundation of the Prince and Princess of Wales". Hence it would be better to continue to have the page's name as "The Royal Foundation" without making any changes. And remember the lead does not change until and unless the Foundation itself changes its name. Hence the lead will still mention this page to be of "The Royal Foundation of the Prince and Princess of Wales" and not any other name. MSincccc (talk) 10:20, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  If the move to just "Royal Foundation" is being made, it would be only appropriate to rename pages of other royal charities like The Prince's Trust as @Keivan.f puts it. Otherwise this move to "Royal Foundation" is somewhat incomplete. MSincccc (talk) 10:22, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  
  The lede and the article title are entirely different things. The article title is the common name. The lede lists the official name. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:34, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  @Necrothesp I know that clearly hence I am advocating and will support only a relevant change of the page name if agreed upon by the rest. The lead name remains the same as it is. MSincccc (talk) 16:54, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose move as proposed. Support move to Royal Foundation in line with WP:THE and WP:COMMONNAME, as expounded by Necrothesp, and support equivalent moves for similarly named royal trusts/foundations as mentioned by Keivan.f. Rosbif73 (talk) 06:53, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.