Talk:Rough sex murder defense

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Rough sex murder defense article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

A fact from Rough sex murder defense appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 30 May 2020 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the rough sex murder defense asserts that a victim died accidentally during consensual sex?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2020/May. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Rough sex murder defense.

Wikipedia

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Law Low‑importance

	Law portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Law, an attempt at providing a comprehensive, standardised, pan-jurisdictional and up-to-date resource for the legal field and the subjects encompassed by it.LawWikipedia:WikiProject LawTemplate:WikiProject Lawlaw articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Crime and Criminal Biography Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Death Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Death, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Death on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DeathWikipedia:WikiProject DeathTemplate:WikiProject DeathDeath articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:30, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

... that the rough sex murder defense asserts that the victim died accidentally during consensual sex?
- ALT1:... that the rough sex murder defense was nicknamed the "50 Shades defense" after Fifty Shades of Grey?
- ALT2:~~... that the rough sex murder defense was popularized by cases such as the preppy murder and the murder of Grace Millane?~~

Reviewed: Zoltán Peskó

Created by Buidhe (talk). Self-nominated at 04:38, 15 April 2020 (UTC).[reply]

Date and length fine. I'm happy for either the original or ALT1. alt2 is cited but I think a bit slangy. QPQ done. No close paraphrasing. Good to go. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 13:02, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Returned from prep per discussion at WT:DYK#Prep 5: Rough sex defense. The article seems like a list of examples without any definition. It also seems like WP:SYNTH. Expansion on the term and more international examples would help. Yoninah (talk) 18:47, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yoninah, There's no synth going on because according to Buzash; "The "rough sex" defense to the charge of murder asserts that the victim literally "asked for" the conduct that led to the homicide and that the homicide was the result of sexual practices to which the victim consented, and may have even demanded." I would like to give an international perspective but all sources are dealing with US, UK, and New Zealand. It may be that the defense is not used in other countries. b uidhe 19:10, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please see more comments at the WT:DYK talk page linked above. Yoninah (talk) 10:57, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yoninah, I did attribute the disputed figure and clarify some of the issues raised. Others are impossible to fix because sources are not necessarily explicit which country they are talking about, or not relevant to DYK criteria eg. one could elaborate more on R v Brown, but there's no need to. b uidhe 11:02, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Could you lead off with a Description section explaining what the defense entails? Yoninah (talk) 11:51, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yoninah, Added b uidhe 12:16, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Yoninah: Is this nomination good to go or is there something more that is required? Thanks. b uidhe 07:34, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I think it looks better now; it's clear that we're talking about a wide range of countries, which was Johnbod's concern. I did some editing to put items in chronological order as Black Kite suggested. Restoring tick per The C of E's review. Yoninah (talk) 21:11, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Certainly better, but it now seems predominantly about the UK, & NZ a bit, with little on the US - should the title be using American English?? Probably not. Also countries of location needed for We Can't Consent to This (??) and the National Organization for Women (US). Johnbod (talk) 23:31, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Buidhe:. Yoninah (talk) 00:16, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yoninah, I don't see how any of these complaints are relevant to the DYK criteria, and I would point Johnbod's attention to MOS:ENGVAR. There are no strong MOS:TIES to a single country as this defense is used in several so it is an appropriate ENGVAR variation. If he doesn't like it WP:RM is the correct venue as ENGVAR compliance is not in the DYK criteria. b uidhe 00:25, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

British vs US spelling

The article repeatedly switches between "defense" and "defence" throughout. Can we somehow make it consistent, except perhaps for the passages that are verbatim quotes? Muzilon (talk) 02:13, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Done (t · c) buidhe 03:05, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]