Talk:Rotterdam (Or Anywhere)

Requested move

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Rotterdam (song) No such user (talk) 08:37, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Rotterdam (or Anywhere) → Rotterdam (Or Anywhere) – The word "or" is capitalised in this consensus, it's at the start of an open bracket Hadji87 (talk) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.155.160.250 (talk) 20:43, 23 August 2017 (UTC)--Relisting. TheSandDoctor (talk) 01:32, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, propose alternative: Move back to Rotterdam (song) per WP:COMMONNAME in books undoing 2009 move. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:43, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Move to Rotterdam (song) per IIO. — Amakuru (talk) 12:45, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 16 January 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved. I'm WP:INVOLVED here, but I was the only person who !voted not to move, so the consensus is against me and there's no other reason not to move. — Amakuru (talk) 14:44, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Rotterdam (song) → Rotterdam (Or Anywhere) – The song's title (as listed on the album sleeve, single release, and all subsequent digital releases) is "Rotterdam (Or Anywhere)". The article was previously titled this, but was moved with practically no consensus due to a bizarre invocation of WP:COMMONNAME here. "Rotterdam" is simply not the name of the song. If we're going to start truncating song names, should we also hit Street Spirit (Fade Out) and It's the End of the World as We Know It (And I Feel Fine)? Klock101 (talk) 18:08, 16 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 21:26, 16 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Klock101: You're asking to undo a closed move request, so that should be done at Move Review, not under Technical Requests. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 19:23, 16 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Ahecht: Thanks. Will do that instead. Klock101 (talk) 20:01, 16 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support A quick Google search shows that this is in use. As noted it seems that this is the actual name of the song and at least satisfies WP:NATURAL. Crouch, Swale (talk) 21:47, 16 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support per WP:NATURAL. It does appear to be the song's title in many if not most sources. Station1 (talk) 09:13, 17 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The song's name is "Rotterdam", not "Rotterdam (Or Anywhere)". The current title was a sensible outcome of the move discussion above, "song" makes it instantly WP:RECOGNIZABLE what it is, and there is no good reason to change the status quo, particularly as the proposed title contains parentheses, making it look like a slightly bizarre form of disambiguation. — Amakuru (talk) 09:19, 17 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The song's name is "Rotterdam", not "Rotterdam (Or Anywhere)". References for this please. If the song's name isn't "Rotterdam (Or Anywhere)", then why is "Rotterdam (Or Anywhere)" used on all official releases? There is a good reason to change the status quo if the status quo is blatantly wrong. Klock101 (talk) 13:28, 17 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The article currently has two refs. [1] (which requires a user search), and [2]. Both call it "Rotterdam". If there are sources using some other title, they should at the very least be used in the article. So no, the onus is on others to prove that something else is the name. — Amakuru (talk) 13:36, 17 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If as you say "the onus is on others to prove that something else is the name" then it shouldn't have been moved in the first place. Where in the previous move discussion is the name "Rotterdam" proven? The single itself, the album it comes from, and all subsequent official releases are the source. As per WP:PRIMARY, "[a] primary source may only be used on Wikipedia to make straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that can be verified by any educated person with access to the primary source but without further, specialized knowledge. For example, an article about a novel may cite passages to describe the plot, but any interpretation needs a secondary source." The name in this case is the simple statement of fact that can be verified by anyone looking at the album or single sleeve. If we're going to require secondary references for something so simple, then should all books, movies, tv shows, games, etc. be required to link to secondary sources before they can be named? Klock101 (talk) 15:50, 17 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I've added a link to the German chart, which uses "Rotterdam (Or Anywhere)". There are clearly some sources using "Rotterdam" alone and some using "Rotterdam (Or Anywhere)". We could try to judge the balance of sources and determine the common name, but if this article is called plain "Rotterdam" it will need disambiguation anyway, so are there any downsides to adding "(Or Anywhere)" as disambiguation rather than "(song)"? 213.205.240.167 (talk) 15:45, 17 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Uncertain. The song is named "Rotterdam (Or Anywhere)" on Blue Is the Colour [3] and Solid Bronze – Great Hits [4]; on the other hand, the UK single was just "Rotterdam" [5] while European releases appear to be "Rotterdam Or Anywhere" (without parenthesis) [6]. PC78 (talk) 19:51, 17 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Leaning towards support though per the WP:NATURAL argument. PC78 (talk) 20:25, 17 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support move to Rotterdam (or Anywhere). Unreal7 (talk) 09:24, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.