Talk:Rose of Allandale

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Songs, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of songs on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SongsWikipedia:WikiProject SongsTemplate:WikiProject Songssong articles

UK geography Low‑importance

	United Kingdom portal This article falls within the scope of WikiProject UK geography, a user-group dedicated to building a comprehensive and quality guide to places in the United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you wish to participate, share ideas or merely get tips you can join us at the project page where there are resources, to do lists and guidelines on how to write about settlements.UK geographyWikipedia:WikiProject UK geographyTemplate:WikiProject UK geographyUK geography articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

[Untitled]

Is it Allendale or Allandale? Allendale is a landlocked town in England while Allandale is a town on the Firth of Forth in Scotland. "No breeze came over the sea when Mary left her highland home". Allandale seems more correct. Does anyone have documentation as to the birthplace of Charles Jeffries?

Allandale or Allendale?

I also think that the original title is Allandale. The lyrics in the song pointed out by the above commenter, also point towards this being a song about the town of Allandale in Scotland, rather than Allendale in England. Charles Jefferys was English however. Another thing, on the charles jeffrey wiki, the title of the song is "The rose of Allandale". Bit of a muddle up here somewhere. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.18.182.158 (talk) 14:21, 7 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Surely its not Charles Jefferys birthplace that should concern us, but that of Mrs. Jefferys - if we assume that this is a personal testament. I suspect, however, it is simply an artifice which uses two fictional lovers to encapsulate the idea of constancy in love. So it really doesn't matter if its talking about Allandale in Northumbria, or in Scotland, or some completely fictional 'Allandale'. Its the sentiment that matters. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.172.4.204 (talk) 22:38, 11 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It definitely should be Allandale not Allendale as all the early copies of this song at the British Library have Allandale so probably the Scottish town is meant (sorry Northumbrians!) or a fictional one as the preceding comment says. And it appears to have been first published circa 1835. I don't see why anyone should bother to try and find any Scottish links for the authors as Jefferys and Nelson churned out dozens of songs (the also well-known Mary of Argyle is another of theirs) and they were probably cashing in on the fashion for Walter Scott and all things Scottish in early Victorian times . They also wrote a song called Rose of Tirol and are unlikely to have had Austrian connections. Tiresias13 (talk) 09:31, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

On further research I have found a different song with Allendale in the title and I think there's been some confusion between the two; the other song's Mary (Gray) of Allendale which begins "Oh! have you seen the blushing rose" and has music by James Hook, most famous for The Lass of Richmond Hill, another song with a North Country setting. It may not be as well-known as The Lass or The Rose of Allandale but it has been recorded by John McCormack and Robert Merrill and is a charming song. Tiresias13 (talk) 15:02, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The song referred to above is actually 'Lucy Gray of Allendale' written by Robert Anderson in circa 1794 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Anderson_(poet). The correct spelling of 'Allendale' in Anderson's lyrics would seem to provide additional evidence that the Charles Jefferys' lyrics and spelling for 'The Rose of Allandale' were deliberate, and did not reference Allendale, Northumberland. As the original Talk commenter noted, Jefferys' lyrics do suggest a location (metaphorical or literal) rather different to that enjoyed by Allendale: 'sea breeze'; 'Highland cof'; 'mountains decked with flowers', as published in the New York Mirror of 1835: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=U6acs81flf8C&pg=PA184&lpg=PA184&dq=manuscript+rose+of+allandale+charles+jefferys&source=bl&ots=kdYuonVmzs&sig=ACfU3U253G-4OlNUk0IbBQNs1vbPYi9ZfQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwji7_25-dXmAhWEYcAKHbUyDMEQ6AEwCnoECAoQAg#v=onepage&q=manuscript%20rose%20of%20allandale%20charles%20jefferys&f=false . (I'm sorry, I don't know how to cite this without the whole search URL). If the geographical setting was literal, then Bridge of Allan (ie, on Allan Water) at the beginning of the Firth of Forth seems a more reasonable fit with the lyrics. Whether metaphorical or literal then, it feels like too great a jump for Allendale to insist that Jefferys' beautiful lyrics reference that lovely village. (ElphaGreen (talk) 08:53, 29 December 2019 (UTC))[reply]

It's also worth noting Jefferys also wrote a song, Mary of Argyll. (14:36, 5 March 2014 (UTC)) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.16.188.58 (talk)

Original Research?

Ideas and facts not supported by the source appear throughout. Early example: the source article contains "Apparently a lot of people think that the Rose of Allendale is a traditional song from Scotland or Ireland, but in fact neither of these things is true." In the article this transforms into "Because the song has been recorded by Paddy Reilly and Mary Black, many people mistakenly believe the song to be a (traditional) Irish song. Sometimes it is also believed to be a Scottish song." Added unreferenced detail regarding why people think that song is from Ireland.Gab4gab (talk) 13:20, 17 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]