Talk:Rose Dugdale

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Rose Dugdale article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

A news item involving Rose Dugdale was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 20 March 2024.

Wikipedia

A fact from Rose Dugdale appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 10 November 2007. The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that millionaire's daughter Rose Dugdale joined an IRA active service unit and took part in the first helicopter bombing raid on the British Isles in 1974?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2007/November.

Wikipedia

University of Oxford Low‑importance

	University of Oxford portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject University of Oxford, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the University of Oxford on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.University of OxfordWikipedia:WikiProject University of OxfordTemplate:WikiProject University of OxfordUniversity of Oxford articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Ireland Mid‑importance

	Ireland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ireland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ireland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IrelandWikipedia:WikiProject IrelandTemplate:WikiProject IrelandIreland articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Biography

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles

Irish republicanism Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Irish republicanism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Irish republicanism and Irish nationalism related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Irish republicanismWikipedia:WikiProject Irish republicanismTemplate:WikiProject Irish republicanismIrish republicanism articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

It is requested that an image or photograph of Rose Dugdale be included in this article to improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites.

Upload

Engaged?

Was she briefly engaged to Major Derek Andre Alton-Nagel (born 1920?). - Kittybrewster ☎ 13:55, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Is that the one from your website by any chance? There's nothing in any of my sources about it, and I'm tending to think her rather wide rebellious streak might have prevented it. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 13:56, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Search some newspaper databases, it will probably come up in the Times, &c. --Counter-revolutionary 14:24, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Really nice work, as usual, ONiH. I was just about to go to DYK to nominate the hook about their marriage, and saw BHG had beaten me to it. There really were some fascinating minor characters involved in the Troubles. Rockpocket 16:37, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I've just added another alt hook, in case the other two fall foul of this new introduction. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 16:41, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

BLP concerns, my arse. What, dare I say it, anglocentric nonsense ;) Rockpocket 17:54, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Was she granddaughter of a peer? - Kittybrewster ☎ 11:23, 6 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Love the article

However, "IRA's political wing Sinn Féin" - highly POV statement to make dont you think?--Vintagekits 17:55, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Not particularly! I prefer that to "alleged by the world and his dog but denied by SF"..... One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 17:56, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Have to say I dont agree with you. Its a controvertial and POV statement imo.--Vintagekits 19:11, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

How about "the Republican Movement's political wing" then? One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 19:12, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

what about "the largest political party within the Irish republican movement"?--Vintagekits 19:29, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

How about what can be sourced to over 50 sources? One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 14:10, 14 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Its still POV - there are a lot of sources to say its not as well. --Vintagekits (talk) 14:12, 14 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Really? Let's see them! One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 14:14, 14 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Come on girlyman you know its POV, they are "closly associated" with the PIRA but to say that they are the political wing POV.--Vintagekits (talk) 14:21, 14 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well no. The problem is that for the majority of Rose's tenure SF were unashamedly the IRA's political wing, and happily admitted to it. Only since the 90s has there been the alleged break between the two, and not many commentators take it seriously. Plus there's also the problem that if you remove the phrase in question there's no link in the article between SF and the IRA to the uninitiated. So as before, feel free to suggest something suitable, blanket removal isn't on. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 14:26, 14 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well then the statement needs to clarified and qualified.--Vintagekits (talk) 14:29, 14 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Something I've always been in favour of if necessary..... One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 14:32, 14 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oi! thought you were going to put it in couched terms!--Vintagekits (talk) 15:54, 17 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

(deindent) "considered by some to be the "political wing" of the IRA" - not when it's that wrong. Firstly as above that doesn't take into account that for the majority of her tenure they freely admitted to being the political wing, and who are the "some"? Pretty much everyone except SF thinks they still are. New York Times still think so, so if sources say so we shouldn't be bending over backwards reporting what SF think if nobody else gives it any credibility. I think the best way out might be some clarification in a footnote? One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 15:58, 17 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Your right ONIH, I was pandering, on wiki to long, should stick to my guns. --Domer48 (talk) 15:26, 21 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bardcom

I wondered how long it would take Bardcom's campaign to end up at this article. "Not supported by given references" you say, I say O RLY? There are two references for the sentence you tagged, and you refer to multiple references. While it is true the Irish Independent article doesn't source "British Isles", McLeave very much does so. Could you possibly explain why you don't think McLeave sources it, and ideally say what he actually says? I already know exactly what he says obviously, but if you are insistent that he doesn't support the text you must be able to explain why yes? 2 lines of K₃₀₃ 14:45, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've replied on the SE page. I merely asked for a reference. I searched an electronic version of the reference for "British Isles" and it didn't appear. But reading page 72 shows it clearly. I'm happy, and it would have been much simpler for you to merely enter a mature and civil conversation, rather than your rather sensitive reaction to a simple question, and running around claiming you've been accused of lying - what an over the top reaction! Calm down. And good for you to know exactly what he says! But it ain't a competition, and when another editor has made a request for a citation (and I only tagged looking for a reference), try AGF first. Starting off in such an aggressive tone shows you've just got ... issues. --HighKing (talk) 14:50, 12 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Work's filtering blocks the SE page for some reason :( AGF only goes so far and it goes both ways, if you're even remotely familiar with my editing you should know that I don't put anything into an article that isn't in the source. Thus, since this article didn't exist before I created it, you should know full well that British Isles was in the source assuming nobody else actually added the phrase in question which is easily checked. You claimed that you'd actually read the source, when in fact you had only performed a search and couldn't find the phrase (perhaps the Irish version of Google doesn't return hits for it?). The two things aren't the same at all. I consider it a slur on my name that you claimed the phrase wasn't in the source without having actually read the relevant page. In future, why don't you try more of a diplomatic tone in cases such as this? Instead of the statement of fact "Not supported by given references" why not try "Doesn't seem to be supported by given references". Equally instead of an "I've read the source" claim when in fact you haven't, try a "I've searched and it doesn't seem to be sourced, could you provide a quote?". If you try that way you're not accusing someone of lying about a source (which technically you did), only saying that you can't find the words in question and thus giving the other editor to either provide a quote or agree it isn't in the source. 2 lines of K₃₀₃ 15:24, 17 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

correct titles

Shouldn't this be Mrs Rose Gallagher and is a Directress of the TV company.AT Kunene (talk) 09:32, 19 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No and no. 2 lines of K₃₀₃ 13:42, 3 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Claim regarding sentence

An IP editor is claiming the sentence "Dugdale and Gallagher used the helicopter to drop bombs in milk churns on the RUC station in Strabane in Northern Ireland, the first helicopter bombing raid in the history of the British Isles" is not sourced by the citations given. Page 72 of Rogues in the gallery: The modern plague of art thefts reads With these "wild boys" she planned and executed the first-ever helicopter bombing raid in the British Isles, with four improvised milk-churn bombs". The Irish Independent reads "Eddie Gallagher was arrested with Rose Dugdale in 1974 after they had hijacked a helicopter and tried to drop milk churns containing explosive on the RUC station in Strabane". I cannot see a single word in the sentence that is not sourced, I am removing the template.DanceHallCrasher (talk) 07:12, 5 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Rose Dugdale. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 01:17, 5 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Rose Dugdale. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071120144708/http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2005/10/19/story213067566.asp to http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2005/10/19/story213067566.asp

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 11:52, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

To add to article

To add to this article: what happened to Heaton. 173.88.246.138 (talk) 04:28, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Escape plot

Shouldn't the plan to win Dugdale's freedom from prison (i.e., escape plot) following the Russborough House robbery be mentioned in this article? 173.88.246.138 (talk) 03:17, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Survivor of Covid-19

According to Dugdale's biographer, Dugdale is a survivor of Covid-19. 173.88.246.138 (talk) 03:20, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

To correct

The current version of this article contains this statement:

"...and discovered all nineteen paintings in the boot of a car"

According to Dugdale's biographer, 18 of the paintings were in the boot of the car, and the nineteenth painting was found in the cottage. 173.88.246.138 (talk) 03:32, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Religious beliefs?

Was she from an English protestant family or Catholic? Did her beliefs change over time? 149.71.163.206 (talk) 18:56, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Well, nominally only, as murder and terrorism are contrary to Christian theology. 2603:6080:21F0:6140:64F3:9A18:D647:13B3 (talk) 13:01, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You might want to read up a bit, starting with the genocidal god of the Old Testament then all the way through Christanity's long and bloody history. FDW777 (talk) 15:50, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]