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ARTICLE

I WILL NOT DEBATE THISBUT DURING MY MORNING RUN THIS IRKED ME. YOU ARE COMMENTING ON MY LIFE AND IT IS NOT TRUE. ANYONE CAN SAY I SAID ANYTHING IN AN OPINION PIECE. I DID NOT TELL JEFF GOLDBERG THAT COMMENT 8 YEARS AGO IT IS A LIE. A GOSSIP PUBLICATION SAID SOMETHING ABOUT ME 7 YEARS AGO OR SO AND IT DEFINES ME BECAUSE A FEW OF YOU DECIDED THAT IS THE CASE.

THEN WHY DO YOU NOT TAKE ALL OF THE QUOTES FROM MY WEBSITE WHERE PEOPLE SAY I AM GREAT. TAKE THE HUNDREDS OF GREAT ARTICLES I HAVE BEEN QUOTED IN CALLING ME PR GURU GENIUS ETC THERE ARE MANY MANY PRAISES OF ME INCLUDING AWARDS.

WHY IS SOMEONES OPINION ABOUT ME (GOOD OR BAD) RELEVANT IN MY BIOGRAPHY. THAT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.

ALSO I AM 40 YEARS OLD. THESE STORIES ARE MANY MANY YEARS OLD.

NOW LET US GO THROUGH THE BIOGRAPHY.

1ST PARAGRAPH: " As a public relations executive, Torossian is known for his aggressive tactics, which have won him both opponents and supporters." OPPONENTS AND SUPPORTERS? AM I A CANDIDATE FOR OFFICE? I OWN A BUSINESS. I AM KNOWN FOR BUILDING ONE OF THE LARGEST PRIVATELY HELD PR AGENCIES IN AMERICA. I AM NOW 40 YEARS OLD. THESE SUPPOSED CONTROVERSIES WERE ALL 7 YEARS AGO OR MORE. WHY DOES OPPONENTS AND SUPPORTERS DEFINE ME - AND WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH HOW I EARN A LIVING.

SECOND PARAGRAPH: I WORKED FOR THE LIKUD IN JERUSALEM IN 1998 REFLECT THAT ACCURATELY - LIKUD IS THE RULING PARTY IN ISRAEL. http://www.prweek.com/article/1258861/defiant-torossian-takes-pride-pushing-buttons http://news.investors.com/technology/031201-345097-international-relations-israeli-and-us-tech-industries-uneasy-as-sharon-era-begins.htm

NEXT PARAGRAPH: VERY LITTLE OF MY WORK IS MY POLITICS.

Reception PARAGRAPH: ATALNTIC MONTHLY I NEVER SAID WHAT HE SAYS I SAID - WHY IS HIS OPINION RELEVANT. GAWKER WHY WOULD THIS DEFINE MY CAREER

ALL OF THESE SOURCES ARE 6-8 YEARS OLD. I AM 40 YEARS OLD. OWN A $20MM ++ BUSINESS. I DONT HAVE OPPONENTS AND SUPPORTERS. I AM A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER ENTREPRENEUR.

THERE ARE MANY ARTICLES WHICH ARE POSITIVE ABOUT ME IF YOU WANT SAY THOSE.

AND IF YOU WANT RECEPTION THEN INCLUDE HOW WE WORK FOR LARGEST CAB OWNER IN AMERICA - FOR POLICE UNIONS - FOR FORTUNE 100 COMPANIES - VERY UNAWARE WHY RECEPTION WOULD INCLUDE COMMENTS FROM 8 YEARS AGO WHICH DO NOT DEFINE WHO I AM AS A PERSON. INCLUDE THE THOUSANDS OF CLIENTS WE REPRESENT

Political commentary SECTION: I AM ON TV AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK USUALLY MORE ON BREAKING NEWS - NEVER EVER POLITICAL. I AM ALSO QUOTED MORE THAN THAT FOR COMMENTARY ON PR CRISIS OR MARKETING CRISIS INCLUDE THAT.

WHY IS A CRITICISM OF NEW ISRAEL IN MY BIOGRAPHY. I WROTE A BREAKING NEWS STORY ON MR BRAINWASH A VERY FAMOUS STREET ARTIST SOME MONTHS AGO INCLUDE THAT. I WRITE OFTEN ON THE SOUTH OF FRANCE AND ITS BEAUTY AND ON SPORTS INCLUDE THAT. THERE ARE ISRAEL OBSESSORS CLEARLY COMMENTING HERE. IF YOU WANT MY OPINIONS INCLUDE THE MANY MANY OF THEM THAT ARE ABOUT NEW YORK CITY

http://observer.com/2014/08/40-years-of-new-york-city-memories/ AND I NEVER WROTE " in conjunction with a campaign by Pamela Geller over the NIF's stance on the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions campaign.[22]

I WROTE AN ARTICLE WITH NETANYAHU FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF AND A FORMER BILL CLINTON SPOKESPERSON - THAT IS ACCURATE IF YOU WANT TO USE SOMETHING ALTHOUGH I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY THAT WOULD DEFINE ME. BUT IF YOU WANT TO GET IT ACCURATE http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/235832-new-israel-fund-is-no-friend-of-israel NEVER WROTE WITH PAM GELLER. DID WRITE WITH BIRNBAUM AND SHEINKOPF.

IF YOU WANT TO KEEP MAKING UP STORIES ABOUT MY LIFE THEN I CANNOT STOP YOU IN TODAYS WORLD.

BUT WHAT YOU DEFINE ME AS IS UNACCURATE AND ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE. AND MANY YEARS AGO THEN WAS NOT TRUE.

I OWN A PR FIRM. THAT IS WHY YOU SHOULD WRITE ABT ME ON WIKIPEDIA.

IF YOU DOUBT I AM WHO I SAY I AM DESIGNATE ONE PERSON (1) TO EMAIL ME - OR FEEL FREE TO CALL 5WPR.

WIKIPEDIA PAGES SHOULD BE ACCURATE. WHAT YOU PEOPLE HAVE HERE IS A DISTORTION - AND INACCURATE. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RonnToro (talk • contribs) 12:07, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

AND THIS IS RONN TOROSSIAN. WILL ASK JUDA ENGELMAYER WHO WORKS FOR 5WPR TO CHANGE THE PICTURE WHICH IS ALSO 8 YEARS OLD. WIKIPEDIA BIOGRAPHY ON LIVING PEOPLE IS AN ENCYCLOPEDIA AS I UNDERSTAND IT. THAT IS NOT A GOSSIP PUBLICATION OR A PLACE FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE POLITICAL OPINIONS TO OPINE ON MY LIFE OR VIEWPOINTS.

I WORK IN PR AND AM A BUSINESS OWNER. I AM INTERESTED IN AND WRITE ABOUT ISRAEL. I ALSO WRITE ABOUT NEW YORK TRAVEL TECHNOLOGY ART AND OTHER PERSONAL INTERESTS. IF THAT IS INTERESTING INCLUDE ALL.

I WORKED FOR LIKUD in 1998 AT THE AGE OF 24. I AM TODAY 40 YEARS OLD AND A BUSINESS OWNER. NOT A POLITICIAN WITH OPPONENTS AND SUPPORTERS. DONT KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS - EVEN IF THE PEOPLE WHO "COMMENT" ON MY LIFE ARE INVOLVED WITH ISRAEL THAT IS NOT MY LIFE OR I IMAGINE WHY I HAVE A WIKIPEDIA PAGE. RonnToro (talk) 12:13, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Welcome back to Wikipedia, Ronn. Good to see you writing under your own name.
@Diannaa:: Although these recent posts bear many of the earmarks of the community-banned User:Babasalichai, I hope you will not delete them. In this case, Torossian is identifying himself, and, in his uniquely enthusiastic and prolix way, makes a number of points which we should take into account. To wit,
  • Torossian denies that he ever made the "1000 Arabs" comment quoted by Jeffrey Goldberg. The quote is not currently in the article, and I have not seen a denial published in a third party source (is there one? If so, Ronn, please point us to it). Nonetheless, I think his denial on this talk page is strength enough not to include the quote.
  • Torossian contends that most of the sources used in this article (he specifically refers to those sources criticizing him, but it is true also of the sources praising him) are old, and, from his point of view, out of date. He has a point. I think it behooves us to cite some more recent profiles of him. I will do a bit of research, and I suggest that others do, too.
  • Torossian denies that he represents Pamela Geller or her organization, AFDI. Although the article as currently written does not specifically say that, it is vague about the connection between them in a way that I believe is unfair. Press reports claim that Torossian personally distributed AFDI's press release condemning the New Israel Fund. Ronn, do you deny that that is true? Please, make the denial specific: something like, "I never distributed press releases issued by the AFDI." If, in fact, Torossian does deny that, we should probably remove discussion of any connection between the two. Nonetheless, we should still probably include a quote or two from Torossian's published columns against the fund, especially since the fund has specifically named Torossian as a leader among its attackers. We also need to provide some context, so readers have some idea what all the flack is about (I said that already).

YOU WANT TO GET IT ACCURATE http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/235832-new-israel-fund-is-no-friend-of-israel NEVER WROTE WITH PAM GELLER. DID WRITE WITH BIRNBAUM AND SHEINKOPF.

  • Torossian repeats his contention that his political commentaries are irrelevant to his biography in Wikipedia. I fail to understand this: if he doesn't want his commentaries to be quoted, why does he write them in the first place? I still stand by my original position: just about every source used in this article devotes extensive coverage to his political opinions. We should quote those opinions directly, and refer to the controversies they have engendered. This is an essential part of his biography. I would like to hear (yet again) what other editors think of this.
  • Finally, Torossian suggests in his comments that he has changed in the last 15 years - now he focuses on his PR business, and his political activism is a thing of the past. Again, I can't understand how he can claim that and continue to write op-eds and opinion columns on political issues, consistently supporting specific and highly controversial political positions. Nonetheless, I think we need to consider this contention carefully, and perhaps revise the article accordingly. --Ravpapa (talk) 14:22, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

I DID NOT SAY WHAT GOLDBERG SAYS. AND WHAT HE THINKS IS NOT RELEVANT FOR MY BIOGRAPHY. NOR IS GAWKER. THEY BOTH SHOULD NOT BE THERE. WHY IS THERE ANYONE OPINION. I DO NOT REPRESENT AFDI OR GELLER. PERIOD. ABSURD THAT SHOULD BE EVEN DISCUSSED IN A BIOGRAPHY. IF YOU INCLUDE NEW ISRAEL FUND INCLUDE THAT I WORKED WITH HANK SHEINKOPF AND NETANYAHU CHIEF OF STAFF. AND INCLUDE THE POLICE UNION THE CABBIES AND HUNDREDS OF CLIENTS WE HAVE WHICH ARE MUCH LARGER NEWS THAN NEW ISRAEL.

YOU PEOPLE ARE ISRAEL FOCUSED. NOT WHAT I DO. I WRITE MANY ARTICLES ON MANY TOPICS. INCLUDE ART AND SPORTS AND NEW YORK. AND MY BUSINESS IS WHAT MAKES ME NOTEABLE. I OWN A $20 MILLION AGENCY THAT IS WHAT I AM NOTEABLE FOR. I AM 40 YEARS OLD THOSE ARTICLES ARE 8 YEARS OLD. IF YOU WANT TO START QUOTING MY POLITICAL OPINION THEN QUOTE MY OPINION ON ART AND FRANCE AND SPORTS WHICH ARE BIGGER NEWS. I AM ON AIR CONTRIBUTOR TO ENTERTAINMENT TONITE FOR 3 YEARS INCLUDE MY HUNDREDS OF SEGMENTS THERE.

REMOVE THE LIES WHICH NOW EXIST AND ARE CRAZY. I DO NOT HAVE SUPPORTERS AND OPPONENTS NOT RUNNING FOR OFFICE. I DO HAVE 125 EMPLOYEES- LANDLORDS AND MANY OTHERS WHO NEED RENT PAID RonnToro (talk) 15:40, 10 April 2015 (UTC)


http://everything-pr.com/ronn-torossian-pr/246763/ http://observer.com/2014/11/six-questions-for-ronn-torossian-nadine-johnson-peggy-siegal-michael-tavani/ http://www.vibe.com/2011/11/5wpr-founder-chats-new-book-why-everyone-needs-good-pr-digital-age/ RONN TOROSSIAN ON TIM TEBOW http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/22/big-reaction-to-tebow-trade-in-the-big-apple/

http://thejewishreporter.com/2012/03/22/tim-tebows-trade-a-blessing-for-jews/

http://charismanews.com/opinion/33051-tim-tebow-the-media-is-not-your-friend

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/22/big-reaction-to-tebow-trade-in-the-big-apple/

http://www.algemeiner.com/2012/03/23/the-mitzvah-of-tebows-new-york-arrival/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltUESzLJ1Z4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPy3ib7SX-s

http://charismanews.com/opinion/33051-tim-tebow-the-media-is-not-your-friend

http://gothamist.com/2012/03/22/will_tim_tebow_be_the_evangelical_k.php

http://blogs.trb.com/sports/custom/business/blog/2012/03/timsanity_new_york_supreme_tes.html http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/ny-jets-quarterback-tim-tebow-a-big-hit-madison-ave-experts-article-1.1048658#ixzz1przgIjEN

http://www.charismanews.com/us/33038-broncos-trade-puts-tim-tebow-in-spotlight-with-jeremy-lin

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1115076-pr-expert-saystim-tebow-will-be-a-marketing-hit-in-new-york-city


INCLUDE ME ON BILL COSBY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEmTC9Mxhjc BATMAN: http://www.globalnews.ca/pages/story.aspx?id=6442683059 http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2012/07/20/colorado-theater-massacre-could-hurt-dark-knight-rises-at-box-office-experts/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lliRQfKznE&feature=plcp Ronn Torossian on CBS The Insider on Olympics Marketing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JksiMYHVrMg&feature=youtu.be Ronn Torossian, CEO 5W Public Relations on CBS Insider on non traditional actors and models https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjMlFLh2QUM Ronn on The Insider about Kristen Stewart

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaRo8WrjcH0 Ronn on The Insider

YOU SHOULD INCLUDE MY OPINIONS ON TIM TEBOW WHICH WAS MUCH MUCH BIGGER NEWS THAN ME ON NEW ISRAEL FUND. BUT YOU PEOPLE TALK ONLY ABOUT ISRAEL AND LIVE IN A BUBBLE. GO EDIT SOME OTHER PUBLIC RELATIONS EXECUTIVE PAGE. ALL YOU PEOPLE WHO DISAGREE WITH ME ON ISRAEL POLITICS SHOULD NOT COMMENT ON MY LIFE. THAT IS NOT MY LIFE.

RonnToro (talk) 15:45, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

OPEDS ON TECHNOLOGY - INCLUDE THOSE - http://insights.wired.com/profile/RonnTorossian

EVERY NEWSPAPER IN WORLD COVERED THIS STORY AND HAD 5W IN IT: http://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/dec/16/high-school-senior-who-claimed-fake-72m-fortune-releases-video-apology

HUGE NEWS STORY - WAY BIGGER THAN NEW ISRAEL HUNDREDS OF PAPERS: http://www.newsweek.com/free-cab-rides-emergency-responders-during-blizzard-nyc-302028

ME ON IHOP IN NEW YORK - http://therealdeal.com/blog/2011/10/11/ihop-to-take-space-in-chelsea-s-limelight-ashkenazy-acquisition-controls-both-pancake-franchisee-and-building/ MONOPOLY IN NEW YORK: http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20110214/manhattan/sightseeing-bus-company-declared-monopoly

THIS IS NOT WORTHY OF MY BIOGRAPHY BUT IF YOU PEOPLE INSIST ON INCLUDING ISRAEL THEN THIS PERHAPS http://observer.com/2015/01/battling-jewish-titans-alan-dershowitz-and-ronn-torossian-kiss-and-make-up/

ALL OF YOU PEOPLE FOCUS ON ISRAEL AND IGNORE THE WORLD WHICH EXISTS WHICH IS WHAT I DO FOR A LIVING AS OWNER OF ONE OF LARGEST PRIVATE AMERICAN PUBLIC RELATINS COMPANIES. STOP. RonnToro (talk) 15:54, 10 April 2015 (UTC) IF YOU MUST INCLUDE ISRAEL - http://jpupdates.com/2014/09/22/eric-cantor-faces-a-subpoena-from-israel-law-center-in-israel-china-terror-case/ - BUT WHY WOULD GOLDBERG COMMENT ABOUT ME BE AT ALL RELEVANT. AND WHY IS GAWKER OPINION ON ME IMPORTANT IN A BIOGRAPHY.

THIS WAS A MUCH BIGGER STORY OF ME WORKING FOR LANDLORDS IN EVERY NEW YORK PAPER. IF YOU WANT TO DESCRIBE NEW ISRAEL DESCRIBE THIS LANDLORD. http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20140604/morris-heights/building-where-boy-fell-death-was-on-citys-elevator-offender-list IF I SAY SOMEONE IS AN IDIOT DOES THAT DEFINE THEIR LIFE. ALL YOU ISRAEL PEOPLE SHOULD REALIZE THERE IS A WORLD OUT THERE.

I REPEAT THAT THE WHOLE BIOGRAPHY IS INACCURATE AND WRONG. GOLDBERG AND OTHER QUOTES DO NOT BELONG IN BIOGRAPHY OF SOMEONE

RonnToro (talk) 15:59, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

http://61.129.118.78/Opinion/book-review/Business-Books-TOP-FIVE-US-Jun-15-2012/shdaily.shtml - top business book according to Shanghai Daily

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/20/nyregion/thecity/20feat.html?_r=0 Mr. Torossian is one of the New Yorkiest practitioners of this quintessentially New York profession

http://www.davidovit.com/articles/Torossian.pdf - long feature in Lifestyles magazine http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/new_york/confident_comeback - TOROSSIAN REPRESENTED OLMERT AND SHARON. THAT IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN WHAT JEFFREY GOLDBERG SAYS. SO REMOVE GOLDBERG AND ADD THIS IF YOU CARE ABOUT ACCURACY. ANYONE CAN WRITE ANYTHING IN TODAY DAY AND AGE DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE.

RonnToro (talk) 16:03, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

I have blocked the above account for block evasion (banned User:Babasalichai) and suggested that he contact us by email for removal of any inaccurate material. I will not remove the above posts, for the convenience of interested editors who might like to investigate these links for possible improvement of the article. -- Diannaa (talk) 16:48, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Just for the record: While I agree that the RonnToro account is probably another avatar of Babasalichai, I would consider an exception in this case. Unlike previous instances of the many-headed monster, this account speaks in the true voice of its owner. And the link you provide specifically advises subjects of articles to post their concerns to the article talk page - something Torossian has done, if somewhat flamboyantly and verbosely. Specifically, I asked if he wanted to deny that he had distributed AFDI press releases as reported in a number of newspapers. I think he should be allowed to make such a denial here, if he wishes (his last post is not a denial of this).
You are certainly within your prerogative to block him, as he is community banned. In any case, if you choose some measure of clemency in this case, he should certainly be advised to keep his comments short, focused and to the point. Respectfully, --Ravpapa (talk) 17:06, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
The user still has his talk page available to respond to that question if he so wishes. -- Diannaa (talk) 17:14, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
Okay. Fair enough. --Ravpapa (talk) 17:24, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
What does it take to get something heard here? Ronn Torossian has for the first time, I believe, commented himself. It is him doing it and I can attest to that. The new picture of which I have absolute right to use and distribute was removed and now there is doubt as to whether it is Ronn himself speaking. You guys are incorrigible sometimes. Is this just to beat this subject down so much that editors can continue to solely determine right and wrong? As to a point made earlier, if there is doubt as to the veracity of the comments allegedly made to the writer of The Atlantic, they how on earth is that same comment that was attributed to that same article, repurposed in a thing such as Gawker considered to be a viable source? Repeat a lie long enough and it becomes the truth? Come on people, you are all smarter than that. Ronn himself is finally appealing directly and you argue it may not be him. You use doublespeak when considering what commentary on him are legitimate or not and his picture is deleted for copyright violation, which was done by a BOT apparently, but still at issue. What do you want? Juda S. Engelmayer (talk) 19:42, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
The account User:RonnToro has been blocked because it is likely being operated by the same person as User:Babasalichai, who was banned from editing Wikipedia as a result of this discussion: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive222#Community ban proposal for Babasalichai. At this point, if he wishes to have incorrect material removed from this article, I think his best option is to send an email to info-en-q@wikimedia.org, where there are volunteers experienced in handling matters of this kind. Also, I think I am out of my depth here and have decided not to monitor or help with this article any more. -- Diannaa (talk) 23:17, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
I, too, think it is time for me to take a bow and move on to better things. While I have serious misgivings about how the article is edited now, I guess it could also be a lot worse. Anyway, @Huon: and @Nbauman:, it's your ball game now. I'm taking Ronn off my watchlist. (though, @Judae1:, if you come up with a free use picture, I will gladly add it in.) --Ravpapa (talk) 05:54, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Relevance as a commentator

Came across this page and am very curious as to the merit of pigeon holing this person as a commentator on one specific area – when there’s clearly a wide spectrum of topics that he’s covered.

The below are the furthest things from ‘Pro-Israel’, and I think it should be reflected in the known for section on page. Possible changing the language to either “Author” or “Pop Culture Commentator”.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/22/big-reacti... http://thejewishreporter.com/2012/03/22/tim-teb... http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/33051-tim-t... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltUESzLJ1Z4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPy3ib7SX-s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEmTC9Mxhjc http://globalnews.ca/news/268464/q-a-the-impact... http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2012/07/20... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JksiMYHVrMg http://insights.wired.com/profile/RonnTorossian... http://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/dec/16/hi... http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20140604/morris... http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/20/nyregion/thec... http://www.davidovit.com/articles/Torossian.pdf http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20140604/morris... http://www.vibe.com/2011/11/5wpr-founder-chats-... Cada mori (talk) 17:10, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Which of those are third-party sources discussing Torossian's role as a commentator? Huon (talk) 00:04, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Huon

I am glad you pointed that out. The articles do not have to say explicitly that the guy is a “commentator”; the fact that he is writing on popular media sites on issues across the spectrum shows this. The links I attached below show him speaking of Justin Bieber, Beyonce, Jay Z, Warren Buffet, Liam Neeson, Mayor de Blasio, Bill O’Reilly, Vladimir Putin, Taxi cab policy, handsome cab policies in New York City, and Kim Kardashian.

However, you interestingly question whether any of the previous links discuss his being a commentator on pop culture, I would point out that no published writer has said that Torossian is an activist on Right Wing Israel affairs, but someone believes that stating is as fact in this Wikipedia article is appropriate.

In fact, I would argue that he writes about many topics, and is an activist and commentator on pop culture icons, tax policy, political and public leaders and issues that are popular for the day and time he publishes them. Still, since no third party says it, you here would argue it cannot be stated; same as the Israel opinion.

This article would be better served either stating he is a pop culture commentator or just pulling out the reference to his being known for “Pro-Israel political activism”, as the reference seems to be as opinionated as the Torossian seems to be.

http://www.businessinsider.com/justin-bieber-as...

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/ronn-torossian...

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/ronn-torossian...

http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/ronn-torossian-...

http://blogs.baruch.cuny.edu/ronntorossian/driv...

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/ronn-torossian... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cada mori (talk • contribs) 13:27, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Two of your links are 404s, three of them are repeats. The point you're missing is that there are reliable third party sources that discuss his pro-Israel commentating. I'm sure he'd like to be known for more and that's why he writes on so many outlets, but the point remains, his non-political commentary is not demonstrably notable. Mosmof (talk) 16:27, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
All due respect, but I am not missing any point. There are no credible third party sources that state that he is a pro Israel commentator. All I have seen are Wikipedia editor opinions on that matter. The article body itself reads, “Torossian publishes opinion pieces in the New York Post, The New York Observer and The Jewish Press. In March 2015 he criticized the New Israel Fund in conjunction with a campaign by Pamela Geller over the NIF's stance on the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions campaign.” Indicating clearly that he “publishes opinion pieces” and does not specify what kinds, but we can assume general. The article does randomly talk about one campaign he had written about, but it does not take away from that fact that it reads “publishes opinion pieces”. That should be all in his bio box – because that is all we know. No one from what I have read or seen refers to him as a commentator on Israel – at least no credible media writer or announcer has said as much. If you can admit, as you do, that he does indeed write about many topics, then why is so hard to commit that to his article in general?

Again, the full array of links are below:


Cada mori (talk) 17:40, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Might I add the New York Observer today, Torossian on NYObserver on Taxi Medallion policy and pricing. I hate to beat this dead horse, so to speak, but he is known for running a PR firm and all else is noise. He writes often on everything, and gets quoted on many more topics, but he runs a firm that has grown rather quickly over the 12 years since its founding. That I can attest to. Juda S. Engelmayer (talk) 19:32, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
Cada mori provides an impressive, but useless, collection of broken links. The Haaretz article we cite as a reference mentions "Ronn Torossian, a New York-based public relations professional who has been publishing anti-NIF opinion pieces in the New York Post, New York Observer and Jewish Press of late". That article is the only third-party coverage of Torossian's writings as a columnist I've ever seen. There's simply no one writing about his Cannes-related columns, or his taxi bailout related columns, or anything but those anti-NIF opinion pieces. So those are what Wikipedia focuses on. I don't think two sentences are too much in relation to the rest of the article. Huon (talk) 21:54, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
HuonYou say, “That article is the only third-party coverage of Torossian’s writings as a columnist I've ever seen.” That is just the point here. He is not an activist. One piece, in passing says he has written about it. So you are comfortable calling him an Israel Activist because one article in a decade as the owner of 5W says he wrote about NIF? That makes him an activist? I am comfortable just deleting the reference altogether and leaving with the real fact that he is known as a PR guy.

It certainly helps understand the motivation here. A single reference in any other Wikipedia article would not fly as a valid reference to label anyone. Cada mori (talk) 13:57, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

yep. we need secondary sources that describe what Torossian talks about. I am only aware of the one source as well. Jytdog (talk) 21:59, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Jytdog, Huon, please listen to what it is you are saying. You both say that there is just one source that mentions that he writes about Israel, but the Ha'aretz article didn't even say that. It said he criticized a particular organization within Israel, and it did not say he was an Activist. That is invented language, and derived from just a single source. Huon says, "That article is the only third-party coverage of Torossian's writings as a columnist I've ever seen." One article that doesn't even call him a columnist, but says "Torossian, a New York-based public relations professional who has been publishing anti-NIF opinion pieces..." That does not say he is a columnist or an activist, it says he is a public relations professional and that is all.
All I am suggesting is that you remove the reference to his so-called activism in the Bio Box and just leave it with what they all say - Public Relations. Honesty and integrity is what Wikipedia is about and by using ONE reference that does not even say what this article claims it does, makes that singular reference useless for this. Objectivity is the rule of thumb here, right? Juda S. Engelmayer (talk) 13:30, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, Juda S. Engelmayer. The question has been asked a few times - do you have answer? Namely - do you know of any other source that discusses what he comments on? thanks. (without that, the discussion about WEIGHT becomes really subjective - this is why we rely on secondary sources as opposed to using primary sources - exactly to get NPOV right) Jytdog (talk) 13:33, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
Jytdog Yes - they just say he is a public relations guy and that is all that should be in the info box. Nothing says he is an activist or a columnist. Once again, I agree with you, and that is why the BIO INFO BOX should be modified to reflect the only thing third parties say about him in worthy numbers.Juda S. Engelmayer (talk) 13:37, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
HM! I actually think that is reasonable. Let's take that out of the infobox. If he really were notable for that, there would be sources saying. What say you, everybody? Jytdog (talk) 13:42, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
From reading this dialogue here, it appears that this removal of the “activism” line is warranted. I have removed it based on the information posted here. Cada mori (talk) 15:03, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
I think there should be a section with the title "Politics" which should include Torossian's political views, activism, and commentary. I don't agree that he is not notable for his politics; he had been in the news for his political activities for a decade before he got into PR. I have been WP:BOLD and added a "Politics" section to the article (because I am not sure how I could have discussed all that content on this talk page - should I have discussed it sentence by sentence?). This is by no means an exhaustive account of Torossian's political activities or sources which cover them - this is just a start, and meant to demonstrate that sources exist. Please feel free to reword or expand that section. FireflySixtySeven (talk) 18:22, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
This is Ronn Torossian. That info is more than 20 years old. And those are not primary sources. And considerably less noteable, than for example me in every single paper in the world for cabs or client work? 165.254.85.130 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 20:11, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
Sure, post politics. So then post that I visit France and I play sports and am quoted nationally in newspapers all the time. that should be relevant also. I am in multiple papers today challenging the NY attorney general that should also be relevant. When I was 20 years old is more relevant than owning a $20MM agency? Are you kidding? 165.254.85.130 (talk) 20:14, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
Well, yes, we want to avoid primary sources, so that's good! And again, you or people associated with you are not arbiters of what is or isn't notable. At least on Wikipedia, notability is determined by coverage in third party sources, and while there was an initial burst of coverage of 5W in the mid 2000s, there's just as much coverage of the activism. Also, being quoted is not coverage. Mosmof (talk) 20:23, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

--- FireflySixtySeven - Jytdog, Huon Ravpapa Mosmof - This issues has been debated in countless archived talk pages before - now we are starting over again. The people who have come here before know the history and can speak to what was discussed. This should have been brought to the talk page first and not edited as you did. Juda S. Engelmayer (talk) 20:25, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

We could avoid these repetitive discussions if Mr. Torossian took the time to read up on WP:PRIMARY and WP:OWN. And listing a bunch of authored columns and saying, "See, he's known for writing about a wide variety of subjects!" is a classic example of WP:OR. Mosmof (talk) 20:32, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
{{u}Judae1}} why are you pinging me? I didn't edit the article. Jytdog (talk) 20:38, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
It is absurd - and inaccurate - to say I am notable for 1994 activism when I was 20 years old. That is a joke. It is simply inaccurate. I own a $20MM agency. That's what I am noteable for. 165.254.85.130 (talk) 20:42, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
There has not been significant coverage? I am on national Tv 3x a week and in national media more than that. That is more relevant and what I am known for than a listing on Haaretz 20 years ago. Absurd. RONN TOROSSIAN TorossianRonn (talk) 11:51, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
It is just bias and insanity and childish to claim that 20 year old posts are relevant. They aren't even sourced absurd idiocy RONN TOROSSIAN TorossianRonn (talk) 11:51, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Goldberg Commentary

How and why would that be in my biography to describe my life? A: It is not accurate what he claims -

I WORKED FOR THE LIKUD IN JERUSALEM LIKUD IS THE RULING PARTY IN ISRAEL. http://www.prweek.com/article/1258861/defiant-torossian-takes-pride-pushing-buttons http://news.investors.com/technology/031201-345097-international-relations-israeli-and-us-tech-industries-uneasy-as-sharon-era-begins.htm

There are many other sources to show work for many others. So why would that be there. Would a right winger saying I am a genius be permitted. Fairness is not at play here. TorossianRonn (talk) 21:55, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Then there is this part of Goldberg's comment. This was alleged many years ago already, and no other media has ever stated the same other than repeated that Goldberg said it. Why is it pertinent at all? He is one person, and and not even the biggest name to ever mention my name. Yet, because of the positions I have spoken out about, some feel that this single rant for the rest of my life represents all that I am, have done and will ever be. That is hardly just for Wikipedia. Who else says that I have spoken that way? I have denied this before on these pages, but my word is taken with a grain of salt because it's not published. Then a gossip website gets used as a credible source for stating horrible opinions, and some feel again that these in t he flood of bigger, better and more responsible sources, are credible for Wikipedia references. Not looking to whitewash, but to be fair and to understand why some issues and comments are considered definite and timeless and others do not matter at all, and it usually runs relative to negative and positive/neutral commentary about me. TorossianRonn (talk) 12:06, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

section on politics, for discussion

FireflySixtySeven thanks for being BOLD and adding a section on Politics. Since this is a controversial article, it would be best to post here for discussion for a bit. Jytdog (talk) 21:14, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

At age 13, at the insistence of his mother, Torossian joined Betar, the Zionist youth movement.[1] He was an active member of the organization for 10 years, and its national president from 1994 to 1996, and continued to fund them afterwards.[1][2] He says he is guided Ze'ev Jabotinsky's teachings in his financial and personal life.[1] His view of Judaism was shaped by his Betar experience.[1] During his undergraduate days at SUNY Albany, he became an activist and advocate for Jewish people, became the head of Religious Zionists of America/Tagar (the youth wing of Betar), and developed a desire to become the Prime Minister of Israel.[1] He accused the United Jewish Federations of Northeastern New York of financially neglecting SUNY Albany students, but both community and Hillel leaders claimed he was lying. Torossian claimed the personal attacks were because of the community leaders' aversion to his Betar ideology, and that they cared little about the Jewish students.[3]

After completing his undergraduate degree, he moved to Israel for a master's degree, but quit his studies after some time to found Yerushalyim Shelanu (Our Jerusalem), an organization which promoted Jewish settlement in Eastern Jerusalem.[4] He helped three families, consisting of 15 people, move into a house in Arab East Jerusalem.[5][6][7][8] His organization hired private bulldozers to help quicken the pace of construction in Har Homa.[9] He and his organization began making news for protesting whenever they perceived injustice against Jewish people.[1]

In 1995, Torossian, as a member of the Coalition for Jewish Concerns-AMCHA, disrupted the rally where Pat Buchanan launched his presidential bid, holding a sign that said, "Buchanan Is a Racist".[10][11][12][13][14][15] Torossian, a follower of Rabbi Avi Weiss, criticized Howard University president Patrick Swygert for his failure to "clamp down" anti-semitism on campus, and claimed that Swygert had "allowed Jewish students to be intimidated by black students and... taken no action".[16] Torossian claimed he and other Jewish students had been "verbally abused and physically threatened" by black students while staging a counterdemonstration against a black student rally in support of the Million Man March, called by Louis Farrakhan.[17] He called Farrakhan "a racist, sexist, anti-Semitic, homophobic hater".[18] Torossian sued the police because they had prevented him from demonstrating at the rally, claiming his First and Fourth Amendment rights had been violated.[19] During a demonstration in front of the Israeli consulate in New York, Torossian condemned and criticized Adam Shapiro, co-founder of the International Solidarity Movement, and called him a traitor.[20]

In 1994, during the Nobel Prize award ceremony in Oslo, Torossian was arrested for protesting against Yasser Arafat being awarded the Peace Prize.[21] In 1995, as a member of the Coalition for Jewish Concerns-AMCHA, Torossian took part in a protest against Yasser Arafat's visit in front of the John F. Kennedy School of Government where Arafat delivered a speech, and disrupted Arafat's meeting with the National Jewish Community Relations Advisory Council in New York, saying that he and his fellow demonstrators were there to "peacefully raise a voice of Jewish moral conscience against the biggest mass murderer since World War II".[22] He organized a protest in 1997 against Arafat's visit to the United Nations, and affirmed the coalition's support of Har Homa.[23] He participated in a demonstration against Sheik Omar Abdel-Rahman in front of a New York courthouse when Abdel-Rahman was being tried for the New York City landmark bomb plot.[24]

As a Likud activist, Torossian, along with Rabbi Avi Weiss and New York State Assemblyman Dov Hikind submitted a petition in 1998 to Israel's High Court of Justice demanding the arrest and prosecution of Abu Abbas for his role in the Achille Lauro hijacking by PLO in 1985, and the murder of Leon Klinghoffer.[25] The state refused to try Abbas because the Knesset had passed a law that prohibited prosecution of crimes committed before the Oslo Accord of 1993.[26]The court ruled in favor of the state.[27] As part of the right-wing civil rights organization Tzedek-Tzedek, Torossian helped with coordinating lawsuits against Avishai Raviv to "pursue the legality of the Oslo Accords, to see whether it is legal for Palestinian murderers to be running around, not under trial and not under indictment."[28] He submitted a petition to the High Court demanding that Raviv be tried for perjury for his statements during the trial of Yigal Amir, who assassinated Yitzhak Rabin.[29]

In 1999, Torossian criticized Benjamin Netanyahu's decisions, which included stopping construction at Har Homa and withdrawal of Israeli troops from parts of Hebron.[30] As director of Americans for Israel's Survival, Torossian helped to organize a rally outside the French tourist office in New York in 2002, protesting against the French government's apathy towards anti-Semitic attacks. The rally called for a boycott of French goods and travel to France, aimed at harming France's economy.[31][32]

Torossian publishes opinion pieces in the New York Post, The New York Observer and The Jewish Press. In March 2015 he criticized the New Israel Fund in conjunction with a campaign by Pamela Geller over the NIF's stance on the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions campaign.[33]

References

  1. ^ a b c d e f Davidovit, Aliza. "Ronn David Torossian: The essence of a man" (PDF). Lifestyles Magazine. Retrieved April 23, 2015.
  2. ^ Singer, Natasha (July 1, 1994). "Betar Gears Up For Parade Suit". Forward. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |url= (help)
  3. ^ Gruenbaum Fax, Julie (March 3, 1995). "Money Crunch On Campus: Insufficient funding for Jewish programs at SUNY Albany". The Jewish Week.
  4. ^ Popper, Nathaniel (August 28, 2009). "Birthright Scored for Picking P.R. Firm Tied To Scandal, Hard Right Politics". Forward. Retrieved April 1, 2011.
  5. ^ "Settlers Occupy Jerusalem Dwellings". Washington Post. September 15, 1997.
  6. ^ Wohlgelernter, Elli (September 16, 1997). "'The Jews are here, and we're here to stay'". Jerusalem Post.
  7. ^ "Settlers take over building in Jerusalem neighborhood". Index-Journal. Greenwood, South Carolina. September 15, 1997.
  8. ^ "Settlers take 2 Arab Houses". The Capital. Annapolis, Maryland. September 15, 1997.
  9. ^ Beck, Galit Lipkis (January 5, 1998). "Group aiding Har Homa construction". Jerusalem Post.
  10. ^ Dorf, Matthew (March 20, 1995). "Jewish protesters disrupt Buchanan presidential rally". Jewish Telegraphic Agency.
  11. ^ Woodward, Calvin (March 21, 1995). "Buchanan is back, still trying to separate right from wrong". Buffalo News.
  12. ^ "Buchanan kicks off '96 presidential bid". Galveston Daily News. Galveston, Texas. March 21, 1995.
  13. ^ "Buchanan joins campaign for Republican nomination". Gettysburg Times. Gettysburg, Pennsylvania. March 21, 1995.
  14. ^ "Buchanan enters GOP fray". Salina Journal. Salina, Kansas. March 21, 1995.
  15. ^ Beamish, Rita (March 21, 1995). "Buchanan declares war on sex and violence in presidential bid". Standard-Speaker. Hazelton, Pennsylvania.
  16. ^ Drew, Joseph (May 19, 1995). "New Howard Head Vowing to Fight 'Tragedy of Hate'". Forward. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |url= (help)
  17. ^ Kurtzman, Daniel (October 12, 1995). "Black, Jewish students clash over march in Washington". Jewish Telegraphic Agency.
  18. ^ Kurtzman, Daniel (October 18, 1995). "Behind the headlines: Strains of anti-Semitism waft among the marchers". Jewish Telegraphic Agency.
  19. ^ Wohlgelernter, Elli (October 26, 1997). "DC police sued over treatment of Jews at rally". Jerusalem Post.
  20. ^ Leibovich-Dar, Sara (April 10, 2002). "Adam's rift". Haaretz. Tel Aviv, Israel. Retrieved April 26, 2015.
  21. ^ Weiss, Avi (December 16, 1994). "Outside and angry at the Oslo awards". Jerusalem Post.
  22. ^ "Arafat speaks at Harvard University". News Record. North Hills, Pennsylvania. October 25, 1995.
  23. ^ Mann, Cynthia (March 6, 1997). "Arafat complains to U.S. Jews about access to Israeli premier". Jewish Telegraphic Agency.
  24. ^ Neumeister, Larry (January 18, 1996). "Sheik, followers get long term for plot". San Bernardino County Sun. San Bernardino, California.
  25. ^ Rodan, Steve; Najib, Mohammed (May 11, 1998). "Court petition demands arrest of Abu Abbas". Jerusalem Post.
  26. ^ Izenberg, Dan (June 4, 1998). "State argues against trying 'Achille Lauro' hijacker". Jerusalem Post.
  27. ^ "Achille Lauro Petition Rejected by High Court". Israel Faxx. October 14, 1999.
  28. ^ Wohlgelernter, Elli (February 3, 1998). "Right-wing group coordinating suits against Raviv". Jerusalem Post.
  29. ^ Wohlgelernter, Elli (October 27, 1998). "A-G put on notice regarding Raviv". Jerusalem Post.
  30. ^ Ain, Stewart (January 8, 1999). "`Enough Of This Guy': Some of Netanyahu's staunchest U.S. supporters". The Jewish Week.
  31. ^ Ain, Stewart (May 3, 2002). "'Serious Lesson' In Hate: WJC officials meeting in Belgium on the stunning rise in European anti-Semitism are assaulted physically and verbally; polls show Le Pen fizzling in Sunday vote". The Jewish Week.
  32. ^ Ain, Stewart (May 17, 2002). "Split On French Boycott: Controversial AJCongress ad sparks rift among defense organizations". The Jewish Week.
  33. ^ Cohen, Debra Nussbaum (March 11, 2015). "Moving on from attacking Islam, Pamela Geller sponsors N.Y.C. bus ads against New Israel Fund donors". Haaretz.

Some pretty decent sources in the first part... the word "lying" is not especially great in a BLP article. are folks ok with this? there is no deadline here so we can take our time and get this right... Jytdog (talk) 21:14, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Why is the fact that I worked for the Likud being overlooked - and why is Goldberg's quote about me - which I never ever said still there. A: I never said it. and B: its not accurate. Why does that define my life.

I representd the Likud. That's not even there or in the people editing sources. shows bias and absurdity

Says here I represented both Ehud Olmert & Benyamin Netanyahu when they were Prime Ministers: Is that relevant ? http://www.thejewishweek.com/features/confident_comeback Easy to translate this from Globes Israels most respected business publication: http://67.199.80.177/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/ronn_torossian_globes_israel.pdf 

http://www.thejewishweek.com/features/legacybuilding_time_olmert

Ronn Torossian representing left wing university Ben Gurion University: http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2003/02/18/155371.html Worked closely with Prime Minister Olmert – he wasn’t considered a right wing prime minister @ all: http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/517134/ 2007 – Trained Israeli government officials during PM Olmerts’ tenure – not right wing: http://www.thejewishweek.com/features/inside_israel%E2%80%99s_image_war TorossianRonn (talk) 21:58, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

thanks for talking calmly Ronn. I'll look at those sources. hands full with day job work right now. others might have comments too... Jytdog (talk) 21:56, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for looking at this and working on it TorossianRonn (talk) 21:58, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
I don't have immediate access to the print sources, but if they support the cited content, I see nothing wrong in principle with the paragraph above. The wording could be improved - I believe "said" is considered more neutral than "claimed", for example - but if reliable third-party sources report that X accused Torossian of lying, then there's nothing wrong with us reporting that accusation, with attribution to who made it and with Torossian's reply, as was done in that paragraph. The only other issue I can think of would be neutrality: Whether we accurately reflect all that the sources report, without cherry-picking only certain aspects. I haven't checked whether that's an issue here.
The sources added by Mr. Torossian are not suitable for Wikipedia's purposes. Wikipedia content should be based on reliable, independent sources, on what others have written about him. I have routinely argued that we should not discuss his political writings since they were not discussed in independent sources. It appears such independent sources discussing his politics have by now been found. If Mr. Torossian thinks his writings on other topics are equally worthy of mention, we'd need not examples of him writing on those topics, but a third-party source discussing his writings on those topics. Huon (talk) 00:14, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
The links aren't available on those 20 page articles. Where are they?

Is the Davidoff article a worthy source? if so there's some great praise make sure its adapted. Also I assume that Our Jerusalem will be removed and Likud will be added correct. Those are 20+ year old sources. I am 40 years old - those are relevant with 1 source for each of those and many are inaccurate?? TorossianRonn (talk) 11:37, 24 April 2015 (UTC) and these quotes from Davidoff can be used right in the bio since the source is accepted?

The accelerated growth and success of his company and his winning team are but a reflection of the man himself. He is filled with exuberance, infinite energy and creativity; he strives for excellence and accepts nothing less; he takes no tally of efforts but rather of results.

Torossian is basically a whiz kid on fire and he has thus attracted some really hot accounts TorossianRonn (talk) 11:37, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

This is as much on me as is the Jerusalem issues above. and we represent the cops and the cabbies. Many sources like this. Much bigger than this Israel noise. http://m.nydailynews.com/news/politics/taxi-kingpin-brokers-talk-city-hall-nypd-sergeant-head-article-1.2090766 http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/18/nyregion/after-public-acrimony-quieter-steps-by-new-yorks-mayor-and-police-to-mend-a-rift.html?_r=0 TorossianRonn (talk) 11:37, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Erm. A massive section on politics in a biog of someone notable for working in PR is WP:UNDUE. You'll need to trim it. --Dweller (talk) 08:43, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Dweller - I agree. That is why I don't believe any of it should be there. It is just about PR. I raised the other issues to state that if someone here thinks that a politics section was needed, which even you do not seem to believe, then be fair and make it about the full array of issues I have helped advance; not just one item. TorossianRonn (talk) 11:55, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
For the record, it came to my attention that my previous comment could be read as if I thought cherry-picking were an issue here. That isn't what I meant; I see no reason to suspect cherry-picking and was just playing devil's advocate, mentioning the one reason I could imagine why theoretically that content might be problematic. Those are quite a few reliable third-party sources discussing Torossian's role in various political contexts, and I do not think removing them all is appropriate. I have seen no reason beyond general claims of undue weight presented for why that content should not be appropriate, and undue weight would be a reason to shorten it, but not to remove it outright. To emphasize, I don't have much of an opinion on whether this is undue weight - to me it seems earlier and print sources focus more strongly on one aspect, later and online sources more on the other - but even if there is undue weight, removing well-sourced content on that aspect altogether is not the way to fix it. Huon (talk) 22:23, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
User:Jytdog removed all mention of Torossian's politics and commentary more than 2 weeks back, including the portions that existed before my edit. How much more discussion is needed before it is restored, in full or in part?
Also, I don't see how Torossian is more notable for PR than for politics. Apart from a few profiles (NYT, Forward, Lifestyles Magazine) which also prominently mention his politics, the rest PR-related sources that come up are all about him being in the news because he is representing notable clients - from whom he doesn't inherit any notability. Those sources say nothing about Torossian the person except that his PR firm represented those clients, and that he acted as spokesman for those clients. FireflySixtySeven (talk) 11:17, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

Political Discussions

be accurate if you want to include. 20 years ago I worked for Likud. That should suffice. If its about a spokesman for an organization make sure that all the quotes for spokesman in last 20 years for corporations is reflected. a $20MM + organization has many divisions - if you want to spell them out great. Is a press release ok as a source as used for one group? and theres plenty of issues daily am spokesman for - cabs police and more.

also why the lifestyles article has only negatives take the great things there stop cherry picking Israel. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.254.85.130 (talk) 02:12, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

I guess the question here should be is what is truly applicable to a wikipedia article? Is every aspect of a life, spanning the duration of decades, worthy of notation? What about torossian makes him worthy of an article? Why do some feel that his israel actions are what makes him who he is and why do some feel it is just 5W? These should be talked about and consensus should be made before these edit challenges occur. This is just more of the same continuous circle of events that occurs here time and again. TLVEWR (talk) 07:03, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

I guess it comes down to why he's notable. Most PR people aren't subject of mainstream coverage. They generally prefer to work under the radar because of the nature of the job. Torossian's willingness to voice his opinions and his past activism make him unique. His politics are essential to his notoriety and without them, I'm not sure there's that much to talk about. Mosmof (talk) 11:59, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
BUT THERE ARE NOT ACCURATE SOURCES FOR WHAT IS CLAIMED THERE. DEBLASIO AND NYPD ENDING THE CONFLICT IS NOT NOTEABLE BUT ISRAEL IS? AND PRESS RELEASES AS SOURCES ARE OK? WHY? WHEN? GOSSIP BLOGS ARE OK? RONN TOROSSIAN — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.254.85.130 (talk) 12:02, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
Please stop yelling. I won't have a discussion, being yelled at. Jytdog (talk) 13:55, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
I have just reverted the edits by TLVEWR since they were a blatant misrepresentation of what the sources actually said about the level of Torossian's involvement. Both the NYT and the Daily News focused on how "a mutual friend, Evgeny Freidman", promoted the meeting. Torossian is merely mentioned as "also attened", not as the main force behind the deal. I rather doubt Torossian considers himself a friend of de Blasio, given his personal opinion is that "Beta-males Obama and de Blasio are respectively governing our country and America’s largest city during trying times; and they are failing miserably during this deep and dangerous crisis." Also, despite recent claims of not being involved with Torossian, TLVEWR was confirmed to be technically indistinguishable from Torossian, his socks and his known associates. I slowly get the impression that we should treat 5WPR the way we do Wiki-PR. Huon

(talk) 16:40, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

Worked for Likud when it says I was Our Jerusalem. Likud is accurate --- in '90s.

There's no source now for Israel clients now. Its a press release. May I ask why a spokesman for Buchanan protest is relevant but not daily media am featured in? Surely Deblasio and NYPD happening is relevant as I was one of 4 attendees. Why would ISrael 20 years ago dominate me? I have nothing to do with Pamela geller? does the truth matter at all? There's not sources that say what you claim here. Absurd childish. RONN TOROSSIAN 165.254.85.130 (talk) 20:07, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

You Don't Even Have Sources For these 20 year old claims

Specifics: THERE IS NO SOURCE FOR THIS OTHER THAN A PRESS RELEASE WHY IS THERE 2 PARAGRAPHS ABOUT OPINIONS OF ME? WHY WOULD THAT BE IN A BIO? Atlantic Monthly writer Jeffrey Goldberg called him "the most disreputable flack in New York", particularly criticizing his representation of what Goldberg called the "lunatic fringe" of right-wing Israeli politics.[21] Gawker’s Hamilton Nolan wrote that Torossian "embodies the public’s worst ideas about what a PR person is: loud, brash, more flash than substance, dirty, manipulative, amoral, and, in the end, not particularly bright."[22] LET ME UNDERSTAND – 5WPR IS NOT RELEVANT, BUT A GROUP I WAS A PART OF ACTIVITIES in 1995 IS RELEVANT?? I NEVER DID THESE THINGS THEY SAY HERE???? WHAT CAN THIS HAVE TO DO WITH ME??? During his undergraduate days at SUNY Albany, he became an activist and advocate for Jewish people, became the head of Religious Zionists of America/Tagar (the youth wing of Betar), and developed a desire to become the Prime Minister of Israel.[25] Under Torossian's leadership RZA brought Binyamin Ze'ev Kahane to speak at the campus in 1995, burned Palestinian flags, accused the black SUNY Albany president, Patrick Swygert, of anti-Semitism, and "exacerbated racial tensions on campus," according to Malcolm Sherman, president of the Albany Community Relations Council and a math professor.[27] I DID NOT FOUND THIS ORGANIZATION – YOEL HASSON AND DANNY DANON DID. READ ABOVE SOURCES WHICH ARE THERE FOR YEARS? After completing his undergraduate degree in 1995[34] he moved to Israel for a master's degree, but quit his studies after some time to found Yerushalyim Shelanu (Our Jerusalem), an organization which promoted Jewish settlement in Eastern Jerusalem.[6][35] He and his organization began making news for protesting whenever they perceived injustice against Jewish people.[25] WRONG – THIS WAS IN ‘90S” Before founding his PR company in 2003, he worked as a spokesman for Likud.[7] NEW YORK TIMES - AND MANY OTHERS SAYS I MET PRIVATELY WITH DEBLASIO & POLICE. WAS THAT NOT A MUCH MUCH BIGGER STORY THAN ISRAEL. SO DESCRIBE DEBLASIO AND POLICE ON MY BIOGRAPHY PAGE. • http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/18/nyregion/after-public-acrimony-quieter-steps-by-new-yorks-mayor-and-police-to-mend-a-rift.html?_r=0 • http://everything-pr.com/de-blasio-nypd/256512/ • http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/taxi-kingpin-brokers-talk-city-hall-nypd-sergeant-head-article-1.2090766 • http://insights.wired.com/profiles/blogs/new-york-city-needs-a-universal-taxi-app-1#axzz3WtpKRkW5 • http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/taxi-kingpin-brokers-talk-city-hall-nypd-sergeant-head-article-1.2090766 • http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20140520/BLOGS04/140529985/taxi-mogul-suspects-city-official-moonlighted-for-uber

I EMPLOY 125 PEOPLE. HOW IS THAT NOT WHAT AM RELEVANT FOR??

AND DO NOT TELL ME NOT TO YELL. WIKIPEDIA RULES SAY THAT INACCURATE UNSOURCED SHOULD BE REMOVED IMMEDIATELY.

YOU DONT EVEN HAVE SOURCES FOR THESE THINGS. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.254.85.130 (talk) 20:12, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

The short of it is that Torossian's claims are baseless, our content is well-sourced and actually rather toned down compared to what the sources say about him and his works, and I'm pretty close to simply reverting the rants by a banned editor. Huon (talk) 20:55, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
Here are your sources. Press releases and random author websites are not sources.

Press release as a source: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ronn-torossian-led-5w-public-relations-launches-israel-practice-253199411.html Random author website: http://www.davidovit.com/articles/Torossian.pdf Of course its better than #28-33 for which there are no links/sources. And the item about RZA - that's not about me. So why is that there. No, its not sourced, and no its not toned down as its not even true. RONN TOROSSIAN

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