Talk:Catholic Church in Japan

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Catholicism Mid‑importance

Catholic Church in Japan is within the scope of WikiProject Catholicism, an attempt to better organize and improve the quality of information in articles related to the Catholic Church. For more information, visit the project page.CatholicismWikipedia:WikiProject CatholicismTemplate:WikiProject CatholicismCatholicism

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Number of Catholics

The number of Catholics in Japan is too low. There are currently 1.2 million Catholics in Japan and we are just over 1% of the population. These numbers can be checked with the Bishop's Council of Japan as well as with the Japanese Government's ministry of Justice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.127.251.137 (talk) 03:51, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Holy See - Japan relations

There ought to be an separate article on Holy See – Japan relations, which would talk about the mainly diplomatic and politcal aspects of Japan's relations with the Church. [1] ADM (talk) 14:30, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Dutch graves?

The second image on the wikipedia article, however meant to illustrate the presence of Christians in Japan, is mistakenly identified as Melaka-St Paul-Dutch graves, when in fact the heraldry, names, and epigraphs on the graves are distinctly Portuguese. The only exception is the episcopal tomb (belonging to a member of the Society of Jesus), which is in Latin.

Transcriptions:

1st from the left (Portuguese):

'ESTA SEPVL[TUR]A E DE R CO...E DE A DA NELA T...NADA SVA MOLHER QUE FOI MORDOMO DESTA CASA DE NOSSA S[E]N[HO]RA MADRE DE DEOS MVITOS ANOS HO QVAL FALECEO AOS 29 DE MARCO DE 1568 ANOS PATER NOSTER'

Translation: 'This grave is of R Co... and of A... of ... his wife, who was steward in this house of Our Lady Mother of God many years, and who passed away on the 29th of March in the year 1568. Our Father'

2nd from the left (Latin):

'HIC IACET DOMINVS PETRVS SOCIETATIS IESU SECVNDVS EPISCOPVS IAPONENSIS OBIIT AD ERETVM SINGAPVRAE MENSE FEBRVARIO ANNO 1598'

Translation: 'Here lies the lord Peter (possibly Dom Pedro) of the Society of Jesus, second Bishop of Japan, who died in Eretum[sic] of Singapore in the month of February, year of 1598.'

3rd from the left (Portuguese):

'S. DE ANT.o PINTO DA FONSEQVA COMENDADOR DA ORDEM DE SANTIAGO PROVEDOR GDERAL QVE FOI DAS FORTALEZAS DA INDIA CAPITAM GERAL DO MAR E TERRA NAS PARTES DO SVL FALECEO AOS 27 DE DEZEMBRO DE 1635'

Translation: 'Tomb of Antonio Pinto da Fonseca Commander of the Order of St James, General Curator that he was of the Fortresses of India, General Captain of Sea and Land in the Regions of the South, died on the 27th December 1635.'

Coat of arms 1st quarter: Pinto; 3rd quarter: Fonseca Helmet on the heraldic right: Arms granted, first generation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.170.99.72 (talk) 15:52, 29 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Merge proposal

There is a rich history of Catholicism in Japan—the original missionaries (notably including Francis Xavier), the persecution of the Church there (the Twenty-Six Martyrs, the Shimabara rebellion, the return of the Church to Japan—that is completely ignored in this article. Given the paltry content of this article, I recommend merging the far more thorough History of Roman Catholicism in Japan into this page. I'll add the banner on the main page. Deus vult! Crusadestudent (talk) 17:02, 11 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose I think the History of Roman Catholicism in Japan article is too long to merge into this article; it works better as is -- a standalone article that is linked from this article. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 17:13, 11 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@WikiDan61: Since this is basically an empty article (it essentially says "it exists!" and lists the Japanese dioceses), could you support a merge in the other direction and a change of title on the other page? Deus vult! Crusadestudent (talk) 20:03, 11 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose as WikiDan61 says, the articles are too long to merge. The history article is almost completely lacking on any information from the last 120 years, so instead of merging (which would require condesning the information already there) it should be left as a standalone article and further expanded with details on the recent history. Instead of a merge, a summary of the history should be added to the page, for those readers who want an overview without following the link. The lead paragraph of the history article would be a reasonable starting point, but needs filling out with one or two more paragraphs. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 01:38, 12 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support. For better overview. Chicbyaccident (talk) 13:17, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 11 May 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved. Two supports and one oppose, and I don't really think that it's necessary to instigate a central discussion before moving this one, as mentioned in the oppose vote. If you do want to, go ahead, start a WP:RfC or something, but I see enough consensus here to move this one now. — Amakuru (talk) 08:03, 19 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Roman Catholicism in Japan → Catholic Church in Japan – This is the naming style of many other prominent analogous articles (Catholic Church in the United States, Catholic Church in England, etc.), and is the more appropriate style. Deus vult! Crusadestudent (talk) 17:13, 11 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support per Crusadestudent's rationale. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 17:18, 11 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@WikiDan61, I'm new to this process. What level of support, and in what timeframe, is considered sufficient to make the move? Deus vult! Crusadestudent (talk) 20:04, 11 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@CrusadeStudent: I'd give it 5 days at least. AFDs are not closed until 7, so you might also want to use that metric. Requested move discussions rarely get much input, but it's better to follow the process for a long-established article such as this rather than just blindly make the move. Also, if you do decide to move the page, remember to clean up and double-redirects that might get formed. Basically, any page that presently redirects to this page must be updated to redirect to the new page. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 20:34, 11 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@WikiDan61: Thanks. Is there a way to generate/view a complete list of pages that redirect to a given page, or will I have to check just the possibilities I can think of and fix them as they come up? Deus vult! Crusadestudent (talk) 21:25, 11 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@WikiDan61: Never mind, I found the "What links here" tool. Deus vult! Crusadestudent (talk) 04:03, 12 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose moving this one article. If you type "Roman Catholicism in" into the search box, there are plenty of countries that appear in the drop-down box including Australia and Russia, so it is not a simple case of this article being wrongly named. So if we want consistency, there should be a central discussion somewhere such as at the main Catholic Church talk page or the appropriate project talk page. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 00:17, 12 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- I'll agree there should be a general discussion about this, but I don't see that as grounds for not changing this one based on the 2 rationales given (one of them specific to this article). Deus vult! Crusadestudent (talk) 02:22, 12 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  - Just for the sake of efficiency, I think that if there is to be a central discussion, it is better to wait for the results of that. I was having a look around the Catholicism project page and discovered this very old discussion. I see you've started a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Catholicism#"Catholic Church in" vs. "Roman Catholicism in", which is a good move. Cheers. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 02:51, 12 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    - I look forward to the discussion I started taking off, but in a large sense this has already been settled, when the page on the universal Church got decisively renamed Catholic Church. See this discussion, for example. Deus vult! Crusadestudent (talk) 03:14, 12 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support (OP), for the additional reason that the article introduces itself as "The Catholic Church in Japan", just like many analogous pages do, not as "Roman Catholicism in Japan". It is awkward for the title to be so different from the lead. Deus vult! Crusadestudent (talk) 02:21, 12 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Reason for my last edit

Hit "save" from the "review changes" screen, inadvertently lost ability to provide rationale. The page on the Catholic Church does not introduce itself as "Roman", so neither should this article. Deus vult! Crusadestudent (talk) 17:40, 11 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]