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Proposed Deletion

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I created this article because Robyn E. Kenealy is a notable member of the New Zealand comics community. I agree, a lot of the subsequent edits since my original ones are puffery, and look like they are by the same anonymous person. The article I wrote was fairly minimal in detail (see Robyn_E._Kenealy&oldid=191510307), but my original edits were well sourced. I am particularly concerned that Cameron Scott does not recognise New Zealand Comics - Comics.org.nz as an authoritative source because it is an open source wiki. This website is the authoritative resource for information about New Zealand comics. While individual contributors can add their information to this wiki, content is stringently moderated by Funtime Comics's sysops Darren Schroeder, Ruth Boyask and Isaac Freeman. The website has also won awards for its content. This is an important issue because if you set the precendent in this article of saying comics.org.nz website is not authoritative you are undermining comics culture in New Zealand. Vegetationlife (talk) 09:35, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"I am particularly concerned that Cameron Scott does not recognise New Zealand Comics - Comics.org.nz as an authoritative source" not I, Wikipedia, Wiki's are not considered reliable sources in our guidelines for articles and most certainly not for BLP articles. You are welcome to try and change that view but you'd need to do that at the policy level not at the level of independent articles. If someone is notable for our purposes, they will have been written about in reliable sources, if not, well they don't get an article here. --Cameron Scott (talk) 09:37, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Could you please identify the policy that states "Wiki's are not considered reliable sources"? Otherwise I will feel compelled to remove your tag. Thanks. Vegetationlife (talk) 18:14, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

From WP:V - Anyone can create a website or pay to have a book published, then claim to be an expert in a certain field. For that reason self-published media, whether books, newsletters, personal websites, open wikis, blogs, Internet forum postings, etc., are largely not acceptable. Self-published material may, in some circumstances, be acceptable when produced by an established expert on the topic of the article whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications. However, caution should be exercised when using such sources: if the information in question is really worth reporting, someone else is likely to have done so. --Cameron Scott (talk) 20:15, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oh and I'll be AFDing this article shortly, reliable sources simply don't exist to support a BLP article. --Cameron Scott (talk) 20:15, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm...you mean Wikipedia is not a reliable source - damn, I'll have to stop citing it in all my peer-reviewed papers. I'll be interested to see what happens to it in a AfD discussion. As far as I am concerned the subject is notable in the New Zealand comics community and I think most people familiar with that community would agree - although now you've deleted most of the references so it's not exactly on a level playing field for AfD. I think we should reinstate them and let the punters decide. After all "likely to have done so" is not very definitive. Also its important to note that a lot of the material on comics.org.nz is sourced from elsewhere - the wiki is just a convenient place to store ephemera like newspaper articles, links to TV & radio broadcasts and peer reviewed articles. You know, stuff that isn't self published but would otherwise get lost in the ether. Vegetationlife (talk) 21:08, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm...you mean Wikipedia is not a reliable source - damn - god no, it's complete unreliable. --Cameron Scott (talk) 21:09, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yet you devote a large portion of your life checking it for reliability - how strange.

Oh and this is likely to have to removed as well - it's a self-published blog by the subject and her husband so cannot be used to source claims of success or notability. --Cameron Scott (talk) 21:13, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:BLP says "...The article should document, in a non-partisan manner, what reliable secondary sources have published about the subject and, in some circumstances, what the subject may have published about themselves."Vegetationlife (talk) 08:27, 25 March 2009 (UTC) and "Never use self-published books, zines, websites, webforums, and blogs as a source for material about a living person, unless written or published by the subject of the biographical material"[reply]

Reference 5 is also a problem as it's a live journal blog posting and not considered reliable by our standards. --Cameron Scott (talk) 21:18, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Citing_sources#When_to_cite_sources says "...To help users find additional information on the topic." And Wikipedia:Verifiability says "Self-published material may, in some circumstances, be acceptable when produced by an established expert on the topic of the article whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications." This blog is written by Isaac Freeman, editor of Funtime Comics the longest running anthology in New Zealand. He is a reputable, third-party publisher and as close to a comics professional as there is in New Zealand - remember we're talking about a country with more marmite than people. Vegetationlife (talk) 08:27, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to ask two questions. 1) Why were the influences deleted? When wiki discusses other artists the influences are always mentioned. For instance, on the Picasso page it is written that "His exposure to the work of Rossetti, Steinlen, Toulouse-Lautrec and Edvard Munch, combined with his admiration for favorite old masters such as El Greco, led Picasso to a personal version of modernism in his works of this period." What is the difference between writing this and discussing the influences of a modern artist? 2) Why was the reference to the postmodern term 'historiographic metafiction' removed. Kenealy's work is clearly an example of this postmodern form (it is, after all, a comic about a 'notable figure' Roddy McDowall, which is then 'fictionalised'). Again, this would be acceptable for a 'famous' author, but not for an important author whose work has a limited amount of popularity. There seems to be a 'power soaked binary' at work here in which 'fame' is judged as more important and worthwhile of fluffery than those who are hardworking modern artists who doing important work in their given communities. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.150.123.232 (talk) 22:43, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Is there an english version of that? --Cameron Scott (talk) 22:57, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

US English or would you prefer fries? Vegetationlife (talk) 09:18, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Queen's English for me M'lud. --Cameron Scott (talk) 16:40, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi - is it ok that I just took the stuff out about my studying at Victoria? I'm sure it's not strictly kosher for me to be editing my own page, but it did seem a bit much like TMI, so I figured it would be okay given the "living persons" article guidelines. If anyone wants to put it back, go ahead. With regard to the above discussion, I'm in no way at liberty to comment, though I very much think that regardless of there being an article about myself on wikipedia, there really should be one about comics weekend. It's not just my baby any more, and I think it really is a kiwi comics institution.Robynk (talk) 03:00, 7 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I tried starting a page on NZ Comics Weekend, but we were struggling to find evidence of notability - not that I don't believe it is, just the evidence is scarce - but then we're not in the country any more and no one much updates comics.org.nz with new material. Vegetationlife (talk) 19:57, 25 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

references / URLs from the national library

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Not quite sure how to work these in.

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