Talk:Robert Spitzer (psychiatrist)

Spitzer study

This article could do with some more information on Spitzer's study on ex-gays - or is that found on another page somewhere? David L Rattigan 08:54, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

So Spitzer's Work Hinges of Votes Regarding Deviance?

Initially, homosexuality was deviant according to Spitzer and his buddies--then they hold a vote in 1973, and magically, it's not. Everything else in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders has been placed there by plebicite, as well. His work is a comment on broad definitions of deviance, and little more. The "statistics" are little more than a recording of the votes —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.130.44.224 (talk) 18:44, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Of course the story of the change to the DSM regarding homosexuality nearly 40 years ago was MUCH more complicated and nuanced than the above description. In the early years studies of homosexuality were preformed exclusively upon people who sought psychiatric care, prisoners, and those dishonorably discharged from the military. Over the course of many years, as healthy and well-adjusted gay people (including gay psychiatrists) became known to members of the APA, attitudes changed. The 1973 change to the DSM was just another story of the advancement of science brought about by greater knowledge of the subject at hand. You are correct that the Nomenclature Committee working on the DSM submits this sort of question by plebiscite, but the reason the votes changed is simply that real research was now being done and healthy gay people no longer needed to hide from those who pronounced them sick without having taken the time to study homosexuals who were well-adjusted. The above commenter alludes to the fact that "Spitzer and his buddies" were among those responsible for the updating of the DSM, however this fact is missing from the "views on homosexuality" section of the main article. Since there is such a section in the first place, and since it only mentions the fact that Spitzer now holds a controversial minority viewpoint that an unhappy but extremely well motivated homosexual can change his orientation, it would seem only fair (and NPOV) to point out Spitzer's mainstream viewpoint that led to the change in the DSM that removed homosexuality from the list of disorders. -William Malmstrom, Clearwater, FL 24.92.217.175 (talk) 01:58, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Reword article

The article reads, 'He was controversial in 1973 for arguing that homosexuality is not a clinical disorder.' There should be a better way of expressing this. Skoojal (talk) 01:52, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

NPOV

So, B.A. Robinson from religioustolerance.org can be used to disprove the scientific value of Spitzer's paper, which, by the way, doens't conclude what this wiki article claims it concludes? Tijfo098 (talk) 01:01, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

There's a whole book about that paper, so more balance is certainly possible. Also, that section totally ommits Spitzer's central role in removing homosexuality from the DSM in the first place. I'll get to it, eventually. Tijfo098 (talk) 01:57, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

have a look here -- Kim van der Linde ^{at venus} 02:43, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Well, if you play on that clip, you'll see exactly why I think the section as written portrays Spitzer in a false light. He isn't the anti-gay rights dude that one could easily conclude from reading his bio here. The section is not unlike a big pharma add: it states only things that are true, but omits others which are also true, and also important, with the ultimate goal of selling something. (Off topic, here's a deconstruction of an article---ad, really---in a pharma-sponsored publication. You may want to read just the 2nd to last paragraph if you're in a hurry.) I realize that the situation in this section may have been unintentional due the brevity of his bio here, but that doesn't change its nature. The recent version of this page that declared all his works incomplete except a preface he wrote for a book of another author, as well as declaring him as having practically disavowed the DSM makes me think the presentation of his position on homosexuality wasn't accidental either. I'll spend some time fixing it by adding the other issues. Tijfo098 (talk) 11:15, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Within the gay right circles, he is very much liked because he is very straight about what he actually thinks. The good thing about him as a researcher is that he actually does investigate what needs to be investigated, even when it is controversial. -- Kim van der Linde ^{at venus} 12:57, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Proposed Additions

I would propose that the following paragraphs be added to the "Views on Homosexuality" section. Thoughts?

A 2001 Washington Post article indicates that Spitzer held 45-minute telephonic interviews with 200 people who claimed that their respective sexual orientations had changed from homosexual to heterosexual. Spitzer said he “began his study as a skeptic,” but the study revealed that “66 percent of the men and 44 percent of the women had arrived at what [Spitzer] called good heterosexual functioning,” defined as “being in a sustained, loving heterosexual relationship within the past year, getting enough satisfaction from the emotional relationship with their partner to rate at least seven on a 10-point scale, having satisfying heterosexual sex at least monthly and never or rarely thinking of somebody of the same sex during heterosexual sex.” Spitzer also found that “89 percent of men and 95 percent of women said they were bothered only slightly, or not at all, by unwanted homosexual feelings,” but that “only 11 percent of the men and 37 percent of the women reported a complete absence of homosexual indicators, including same-sex attraction.” The Post reported that “[s]ome 43 percent of the sample had been referred to Spitzer by ‘ex-gay ministries,’” while “an additional 23 percent were referred by the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality.” Spitzer has stated that his research "shows some people can change from gay to straight, and we ought to acknowledge that." However, Spitzer has also stated repeatedly that he believes such change to be “rare.”

In a 2005 interview, Spitzer stated that “[m]any colleagues were outraged” following the publication of the study. Spitzer added that “[w]ithin the gay community, there was initially tremendous anger and feeling that I had betrayed them.” When asked whether he would consider a follow-up study, Spitzer said no, and added that he felt “a little battle fatigue.” While Spitzer has said that he has no way of knowing whether the study participants were being honest, he has also indicated that he believed that the interviewees were being candid with him. 184.74.22.161 (talk) 18:17, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

No objection, so I will go ahead and add.184.74.22.161 (talk) 05:12, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

"Father of modern psychiatry"

This piece from the New York Times suggests Dr. Spitzer is the father of modern psychiatry. Perhaps worth mentioning in the article? I also left a note at Talk:List of people considered father or mother of a scientific field. --MZMcBride (talk) 19:01, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Flaw in The Fatal Flaw in the Study – There was no way to judge the credibility of subject reports of change in sexual orientation

From Work On Homosexuality: "but that "only 11 percent of the men and 37 percent of the women reported a complete absence of homosexual indicators, including same-sex attraction." Sounds to me like they're being pretty dam honest! If we accept that they're not being honest, we must then throw out every gay-affirming qualitative study that does not go deeper into the perceptions or self-reports of its subjects. -Dr.Surf. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.109.220.115 (talk) 08:40, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Some remarks

The idea that homosexual practice is a perversion was stated with this wording by Sigmund Freud himself, the elimination of this behavior as an specific diagnosis was the consequence of the homosexual lobbying, they didn't like being considered sick persons, but a free choice for sex. Robert Spitzer and his wife Janet B Williams were part, along with Gerald Klerman and Myrna Weisman, of the Quality Assurance Team in the Alprazolam/Panic Attacks Clinical Trial sponsored by the Upjohn Company (Kalamazoo, MI) in the late 80's, visiting several countries in this frame; they wrote an specific version of the SCID for use within this study.--Jgrosay (talk) 13:22, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

on homosexuality

the section is a parade example of undueness: ONE sentence is devoted to his major achievemnet, de-pychiatrizing homosexuality!

The rest (90%) is he said she said, tit for tat stuff on a study the man later regretted and tried to withdraw. This is ludicrous and should be edited heavily - --Wuerzele (talk) 21:51, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Robert Spitzer (psychiatrist). Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070928091622/http://www.gayhealth.com/templates/1153405334669988619162/common/feature.html?record=552&trycookie=1?record=552 to http://www.gayhealth.com/templates/1153405334669988619162/common/feature.html?record=552&trycookie=1?record=552

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 14:04, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Robert Spitzer (psychiatrist). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110930162328/http://asp.cumc.columbia.edu/psych/events/psychdisplayimage.asp?Event_ID=2078 to http://asp.cumc.columbia.edu/psych/events/psychdisplayimage.asp?Event_ID=2078
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.gayhealth.com/templates/1153405334669988619162/common/feature.html?record=552&trycookie=1%3Frecord%3D552

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 10:53, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Robert Spitzer (psychiatrist). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110727134814/http://nyspi.org/ar2000/Research/BiometricsResearch.html to http://nyspi.org/ar2000/Research/BiometricsResearch.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 19:07, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

Jewish ancestry?

Usually people with the surname "Spitzer" are Jewish, or have Jewish ancestry, for example, former governor of New York, Eliot Spitzer. If this is the case for Robert Spitzer, it should be mentioned in the body of the article. 2601:8C:4581:1150:31A3:755B:44B6:FF04 (talk) 00:01, 18 January 2020 (UTC)