Talk:Robert Nisbet-Hamilton

Sixth son of Robert Dundas of Arniston and the dubious tag

Currently the article says:

Born Robert Dundas, he was the sixth son of Robert Dundas of Arniston.

Notes

He may well have been the six son of a Robert Dundas of Arniston but there are a lot to choose from! The Family section of Robert Dundas of Arniston explains:

Part of a remarkable Scottish legal and political dynasty, Dundas was the son of Robert Dundas, of Arniston, the younger. His great-great-grand-father James Dundas, Lord Arniston (died 1679), great-grandfather Robert Dundas, Lord Arniston had been an MPs and judges, as were his grandfather Robert Dundas, of Arniston, the elder and his father Robert Dundas, of Arniston, the younger.

Robert Dundas married in May 1787 Elizabeth (his cousin), daughter of his uncle Henry Dundas, 1st Viscount Melville; she died 18 March 1852. By her he had three sons and two daughters. Robert, his heir, died in 1838. Henry, the second son, was vice-admiral in the navy, and died 11 Sept. 1863.

Notes

--

• Hamilton DNB entry
• Hamilton & Fry ONDB entry

So it is likely that this man was the son of Robert Dundas (died 1838) the son Robert Dundas of Arniston (1758–1819) . Ie this man was the grandson of the subject of the biography article Robert Dundas of Arniston (1758–1819).

Comments? -- PBS (talk) 11:01, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

OK I've found an alternative

• Dod's peerage, baronetage, and knightage of Great Britain and Ireland: for ... : including all the titled classes. Vol. 30. Whittaker. 1870. p. 327. {{cite book}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |1= (help)

HAMILTON, Privy Councillor. Creat. 1852 -- Right Hon. Robert Adam Christopher-Nesbet-Hamilton, eldest son of the late Philip Dundas, Esq. (who was 4th son of Lord President Dundas, the elder bro. of the 1st Visct. Melville), by the sister of Sir David Wedderburn, Bart. Born 1804; mar. 1828, Lady Mary, oldest dau. of the 7th Earl of Elgin (she was born 1801); admitted an advocate at the Scottish bar in 1826; assumed the name of Christopher in lieu of Dundas in compliance with the will of the late George Manners, Esq., of Bloxliolm Hall, and took the names of Nisbet-Hamilton on Lady Mary succeeding to the (maternal) Belhaven and Dirleton estates, 1855; was chancellor of the duchy of Lancaster from March to Dec. 1852; was sworn a privy councillor on accepting office; appointed a deputy lieut. of Haddingtonshire 1859; is patron of 2 livings; was M.P. for Ipswich from 1826 to 1830, for Edinburgh in 1831, and for Lincolnshire North from 1837 to 1857. Residences—33, Chesham Place, London, S.W.; Bloxholm Hall, Sleaford, Lincolnshire.

Robert Dundas of Arniston, the elder had the two sons mentioned above Robert Dundas of Arniston, the younger and Henry Dundas, 1st Viscount Melville so from the above text Philip Dubbar was the 4th son of Robert Dundas of Arniston, the younger.

This is not contradicted by the Dictionary of National Biography that says that by his first wife he had four daughters, ... and by his second four sons. But the DNB only mentions the names of three of them Robert (of course!) Francis and William. So the fourth and youngest son could have been Philip.

In which case this gives source us his fathers name and his mothers relationship to a baronetcy but not her name "by the sister of Sir David Wedderburn, Bart. Born 1804" (see Ogilvy-Wedderburn_Baronets)

This source:

• Debrett, John (1815). Debrett's baronetage of England: containing their descent and present state, their collateral branches, births, marriages, and issue, from the institution of the order in 1611... (3 ed.). Printed for F. C. and J. Rivington. p. 1124.

Gives further details:

This family has been created baronets of North Britain, in 2 branches; viz. the Wedderburns of Gosford, created in 1697, (from whom descended Alexander Wedderburn, 1st earl of Rosslyn, lord high chancellor of England; (Vide Debrett's Peerage of the United Kingdom;) and the Wedderburns of Ballandean, also created in 1697, which latter title was forfeited by sir John Wedderburn, bart., who engaged in the rebellion of 1645, and was executed Nov. 28, 1746.

Sir Alexander Wedderburn, knighted by Charles I., m. Matilda, daughter of Fletcher, of Inner Presser, esq., and had issue,

John and James: John, the elder, had a charter of the lands of the barony of Blackness, in 1668, and was created a baronet of Scotland in 1704; his eldest son, sir Alexander, m. Elizabeth, eldest daughter of sir Alexander Seton, bart., by whom he had a son,

John, who succeeded him, and d. unm. in 1772.

James Wedderburn, esq., 2d son of the above-named sir Alexander Wedderburn, knt., m. Elizabeth, daughter of Robert Davidson, of Balguy,co. Angus, esq., by whom, among other issue, he had a son,

Alexander, who purchased the estate of Blackness of his cousin. Sir John, on his decease, assumed the title of baronet; be m. Catharine, daughter of John Scott, of Dundee, esq.

his eldest son, John, assumed the title of baronet on his father's death, notwithstanding it had been forfeited; he m. Jane, eldest daughter of John Fullarton, esq.:

his eldest son, John, also assumed the title of baronet, and m., 1st, Margery, eldest daughter of David Ogilvy, commonly called earl of Airley, (which title became forfeited in 1715,) by whom he had issue:

1. John, d. in 1783;

2. Sir David, the present baronet;

3. Margaret, m. Philip Dundas, esq., governor and treasurer of Prince of Wales's Island, and late M.P. for Gatton, who d. in 1807;

and Jane.

He m., 2dly, Alicia, daughter of colonel James Dundas, by Margaret, daughter of lord Forbes, by whom he had issue,

James, John, Alexander, Mary, and Susan;

and Louisa-Dorothy, m. lieutenant-general John Hope, lord Niddry, K.B., brother of James, earl of Hopetoun. John, father of the present baronet, d. June 13, 1803.

So this man was the son of Philip Dundas (d. 1807) and Margte daughter of Sir John Wedderburn (and sister of Sir David, the present baronet in 1815). Which by [[Ogilvy-Wedderburn Baronets article these were Sir John Wedderburn, 6th Baronet (1729-1803) and Sir David Wedderburn, 7th Baronet (1775-1858) (created a Baronet of Balindean, in 1803)

There for I propose to replace the current text

• Born Robert Dundas, he was the sixth son of Robert Dundas of Arniston.

with:

• Robert Dundas was the son of Philip Dundas (fourth son of Robert Dundas of Arniston, the younger), and Margaret daughter of Sir John Wedderburn, 6th Baronet (1729-1803) (and brother of Sir David Wedderburn, 7th Baronet (1775-1858)./Sources here/

--PBS (talk) 13:12, 9 December 2011 (UTC)