Talk:Robert, 1st Earl of Gloucester

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Richard fitz Robert Archbishop of Rouen (died 1175)

Here called his son, does not appear in Spear's authoritative Fasti of the Norman church before 1204. The archbishops at that time were Hugh (1130-1164) and Rotrou (1165-1183). So I have eliminated this entry David Skipper 23:35, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bath

I would like to know which source said "Robert, earl of Gloucester was in the assembly at Bath at the year of 1140" and "the assembly was in the month of August".

The article does not say that Robert was at Bath : viz. 'The king succeeded in containing him along the line of the Cotswold Hills, with such effect that a peace conference was held at Bath in August 1140, though nothing came of it.' For dates see Crouch book (2000). I take your point though. The article as it stands sort of implies that Earl Robert was there. I've changed it. David Skipper 11:51, 19 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It was a supposition earl Robert was there becuase he was the step brother of the empress, wasn't it? Are you sure the conference was in August and not in the spring?. 20 February 2007.

Crouch (p 134) says August 1140 and quotes the Historia Novella as his source. I checked Crouch's source and it actually does say that Robert of Gloucester went to the conference 'near' Bath. King Stephen was represented by the archbishop of Canterbury, the bishop of Winchester and his queen. But the Historia Novella just gives the date as some time after Whitsun (26 May 1140). Crouch is usually reliable, and he may have some reason for giving August as the month but he doesn't give it. David Skipper 22:30, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Now I don't understand nothing "I checked Crouch's source and it actually does say that Robert of Gloucester went to the conference 'near' Bath". In actually?. Perhaps before, Historia Novella (XII century), didn't said earl Robert was at the conference? 23:57, 20 February 2007.

I'm sorry but your use of English is unclear and I cannot understand your point. David Skipper 23:06, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand "I checked Crouch's source and it actually does say that Robert of Gloucester went to the conference 'near' Bath". In actually?. Perhaps, before, Historia Novella (XII century) didn't said earl Robert was at the conference, wasn't it?.

I read other works of other authors of this century and the author didn't name any people. Only mentioned a conference at Bath. The bishop of Canterbury, the bishop of Winchester, king Stephen, empress Matilda and Earl Robert could be a deduction of Crouch and could be wrong about earl Robert. In this part of civil war, Miles de Pitres was an active soldier and earl Robert only was a reference and perhaps was hide at Bristol, after King Stephen would like to capture him at Arundel. FrankJav. 23:10, 21 February 2007.

OK. I think I get your drift. I checked the XII-century text which Crouch gave as his source about Bath in 1140. It's the Historia Novella of William of Malmesbury, and it says of the Bath meeting: 'Some time afterwards [after Whitsun, it means] by the mediation of the legate [the bishop of Winchester] a meeting was appointed between the Empress and the king, on the chance that peace might be restored by the inspiration of God. The meeting was near [iuxta] Bath: on the Empress's side her brother Robert was sent and the rest of her advisers; on the king's side, the leagte and the archbishop and likewise the queen.' So Crouch was right so far as he went. I still don't understand why he said it was in August though. David Skipper 08:57, 22 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, David. Frank. 18:22, 22 February 2007.

Historia Novella

I would like to read THE HISTORIA NOVELLA (full text) since 1135 to William of Malmesbury died. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.102.216.233 (talk) 18:42, 23 February 2007 (UTC).[reply]

The Marriage of William Earl of Gloucester

A recent edit has suggested (without source) that Earl William married a member of the Berkeley family. All the texts cited below give a marriage c.1148 to Hawise (d.1197), daughter of Robert II, earl of Leicester. See Patterson, Earldom of Gloucester Charters, p 5 for details, and also Complete Peerage, sub Gloucester. Edit removed. David Skipper 13:18, 19 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The children of earl Robert

Where born the children of Robert, earl of Gloucester?. —Preceding unsigned comment added by FrankJav (talk • contribs) 10:20, 27 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Probably not known.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 07:27, 5 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Illegimate son of Robert, earl of Gloucester

Who is father of fThomas?. Who is Thomas?.

Illegimate son of Robert, earl of Gloucester

Who is father of Thomas?. Who is Thomas?. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.37.122.12 (talk) 22:19, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If you check the reference cited, you'll find that it's based on a pipe roll entry mentioning "Thomas, grandson of the Count of Gloucester and his son Richard". Presumably the "father" part is an assumption and he can't be traced to any of the other children of Earl Robert. 146.198.237.183 (talk) 13:24, 30 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Marriage(s)

In the Infobox the only spouse listed is "Onya Amadi" while in the Family section the only spouse listed is Mabel FitzHammon. Can anyone clear up this conflict? History Lunatic (talk) 22:39, 13 March 2014 (UTC)History Lunatic[reply]

Daughter Mabel married "Aubrey de Vere"?

This does not square with articles on either Aubrey de Vere I or Aubrey de Vere II. Can a reference be provided? Wetman (talk) 13:30, 1 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ancestry

I suggest this ancestry of him:

Ancestors of Robert of Caen, 1st Earl of Gloucester (c. 1090–1147)^[1]^[2]^[3]^[4]^[5]

16. Richard II of Normandy^[8]

8. Robert I of Normandy^[5]^[8]

34. Conan I of Brittany^[8]

17. Judith of Brittany^[8]

4. William I the Conqueror of England^[2]^[4]^[5]^[7]

18. Fulbert of Falaise^[8]

9. Herleva of Falaise^[8]

19. Doda or Duxia?

2. Henry I of England^[1]^[2]^[4]^[5]^[7]

20. Baldwin IV of Flanders

10. Baldwin V of Flanders^[4]^[8]

21. Ogive of Luxembourg

5. Matilda of Flanders^[2]^[4]^[7]

44. Hugh Capet^[9]

22. Robert II of France^[9]

11. Adela of France and Flanders^[4]^[8]

23. Constance of Arles^[9]

1. Robert of Gloucester^[1]^[2]^[5]^[6]

6. Reginald Gay?^[1]

3. A woman from Gay family^[1]

Sources:

Bernard Burke, Ashworth P. Burke (1934). A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Peerage and Baronetage, the Privy Council, Knightage, and Companionage. 1934
Marjorie Chibnall (1991), The Empress Matilda: Queen Consort, Queen Mother and Lady of the English, London, UK: Basil Blackwell ISBN 9780631157373
D. Crouch, "Robert of Gloucester's Mother and Sexual Politics in Norman Oxfordshire", Historical Research, 72 (1999) pp 323–332.
Oram, Richard; David: The King Who Made Scotland, (Gloucestershire, 2004).
Frederick Lewis Weis, Walter Lee Sheppard, William Ryland Beall, Kaleen E. Beall. Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700: Lineages from Alfred the Great, Charlemagne, Malcolm of Scotland, Robert the Strong, and Other Historical Individuals. 2008 ISBN 0806317523, ISBN 9780806317526

References

^ ^a ^b ^c ^d ^e David Crouch, Historical Research, 1999 Cite error: The named reference "Crouch" was defined multiple times with different content (see the help page).
^ ^a ^b ^c ^d ^e Chibnall 1991, p. ix
^ Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, pp 62, 105, 109, 118, 123, 142, 157
^ ^a ^b ^c ^d ^e ^f A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Peerage and Baronetage, the Privy Council, Knightage, and Companionage, pp 26, 32
^ ^a ^b ^c ^d ^e Oram, David, p. 10
^ Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, p. 123
^ ^a ^b ^c Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, pp 118, 123 Cite error: The named reference "<ref5" was defined multiple times with different content (see the help page).
^ ^a ^b ^c ^d ^e ^f ^g ^h Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, p. 118 Cite error: The named reference "<ref6" was defined multiple times with different content (see the help page).
^ ^a ^b ^c Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, pp 62, 105, 109, 142

Dmitry Azikov (talk) 08:11, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The important bits of the ancestry are already in the article - who his father was. The rest of it isn't useful to understanding the life of Robert. Again - I point to WP:NOTGENEALOGY. We are not a genealogical work and should not present such information when biographies of the subject do not do so. And again, many of these works are not very reliable - Weis and Burke are not good sources for this information. Also - the use of the name "Robert FitzRoy" is deceptive - we don't have that as an alternate name for him nor should we put that his maternal grandfather was certain - the article makes it clear that this is not a certain parentage for Robert's mother. Ealdgyth (talk) 12:13, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

About FitzRoy agree, so he also could be FitzHenry, I added that his maternal grandfather is uncertain questionable under ? Dmitry Azikov (talk) 15:07, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[Crouch-1] David Crouch, Historical Research, 1999 Cite error: The named reference "Crouch" was defined multiple times with different content (see the help page).

[<ref1-2] Chibnall 1991, p. ix

[3] Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, pp 62, 105, 109, 118, 123, 142, 157

[<ref3-4] ^ ^a ^b ^c ^d ^e ^f A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Peerage and Baronetage, the Privy Council, Knightage, and Companionage, pp 26, 32

[<Oram-5] Oram, David, p. 10

[6] Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, p. 123

[<ref5-7] Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, pp 118, 123 Cite error: The named reference "<ref5" was defined multiple times with different content (see the help page).

[<ref6-8] ^ ^a ^b ^c ^d ^e ^f ^g ^h Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, p. 118 Cite error: The named reference "<ref6" was defined multiple times with different content (see the help page).

[<ref7-9] Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, pp 62, 105, 109, 142

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