Talk:Roanoke, Virginia/Archive 1

Archive 1

Question

Wondering how to edit this U.S. County Entry?
The WikiProject U.S. Counties standards might help.

This article refers to the city (not the county) by the same name. Do these standards still apply? —BozoTheScary 03:10, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Nicknames

The business about the nicknames is superfluous and inacurate. It is not important that one of Roanoke's ford dealerships is called Magic City. No one calls it Noketown(since town is not in the name of the city at all) and no one has ever, in the history of the world, called it either Roajoke, Roatoke, or any such thing. Mentioning of the 'star city', 'magic city' and former name, the big lick are enough and sufficiently mentioned elsewhere.

— above unsigned comment by Youzwan 9 October 2006

No one calls it Noketown(since town is not in the name of the city at all) and no one has ever, in the history of the world, called it either Roajoke, Roatoke, or any such thing.

You, sir, have clearly never been to Roanoke in your life, as I hear these terms used nearly on a daily basis, by many people. Furthermore, their use is frequent enough that they reflect an aspect about the local culture here. Get a job. Ƿōdenhelm (talk) 12:55, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

I believe your statement is not backed by any information, for I am from Roanoke as well, and, if you remember, there was a short lived restaurant in downtown roanoke by the name of Noketown and the Roajoke and Roatoke are the Native American names of the area. Fanofranz (talk) 13:52, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Hey I know a Native American and that's what he calls the place :D Ƿōdenhelm (talk) 00:50, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

As much as we might want this encyclopedia to contain local knowledge, the Wikipedia considers local knowledge to be original research which is barred. No matter what anyone has heard, no nickname will stay in this article unless it is eventually supported by a reliable citation. That means no blogs, no social networking sites, no forum entries.

Newspaper articles about the defunct Noketown Bar & Grill, for example, can be used to support "Noketown" as a nickname, but they may still not be sufficient without other referenced usage illustrating that the name wasn't incidental. This is why the "citation needed" tags have a date, if you look at the source. When they've been unanswered for "too long", they get yanked.

The "Nickname" section is the most active part of this article (with the "Notable Residents" a close second) and has grown and shrunk repeatedly. These unsupported nicknames are due to get yanked by the next exclusionist who wanders by. Then, they will invariably get readded during the next frat party lull, after which they'll get a new coat of "fact" tags all over again.

This cycle is fine by me, but if you really want these nicknames to stick, you need to find references or you need to reconsider whether or not these nicknames are really used by enough people to really be notable. –BozoTheScary (talk) 23:21, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

I largely agree. The 'Magic City' nickname, however, is covered in the History section. It is arguably relevant that it is still used by a few area businesses (Magic City Sprinkler, too) and very rarely in the area press. (Perhaps that wording should be used instead?) The plays on the word 'joke' are almost definitely unencyclopedic in that there don't seem to be any cite-worthy sources, even though I heard them conversationally, albeit rarely, when I was in Roanoke. The plays on the word 'toke' are potentially relevant if there really is a citable source showing that Roanoke is 'known' for pot. This DOJ map doesn't specify Roanoke as a significant drug distribution area at all, though. —BozoTheScary 14:53, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I too agree, except on one point. I live in Lexington, and many people who I go to school with who are from Roanoke often refer to it as "Noke city" and "Noke Town".

I'm personally inclined to say that that kind of personal reference is exactly the kind of thing that one would expect from an encyclopedia article. However, I've been too involved in some of the delete debates and my mind is now polluted by reading the prohibition on original art/work/research. So, I don't know. I am not inclined to remove the "Noke" stuff, but I'll have a hard time defending it if someone charges it as original research. Bleh. –BozoTheScary 23:34, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

All these names I have heard before by other citizens, so I would consider them acurate, though the acuracy of the weed use may be in question...

I gave in and just added a section acknowledging the "joke" and "toke" colloquial nickname families. Since they are colloquial there really aren't any citable sources (blogs and comment sections aren't citable), so I just added Google searches as refs. If it doesn't pass muster, revert it, please. I don't know of any other way to substantiate colloquial, yet encyclopedic, information. –BozoTheScary 22:35, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Slow-noke gets like 10 ghits. That's a private joke, not a nickname. —BozoTheScary 03:03, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Wow, sorry you guys have 0 lives. There really isn't much to do in Roajoke, huh? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nitro27 (talk • contribs) 17:56, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

It's called bikeshedding. They might not know of anything notable to add to the article, but they know of a nickname for the city that they only use on their side of the block. It's actually pretty normal human behavior. My excuse is that I'm trying to keep the article in the good graces of the Wikilawyers while sating the dubious nickname editors. What's your excuse? Got nothing better to do than make fun of other people on Wikipedia on Talk pages on a Saturday night? –BozoTheScary (talk) 23:51, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

I've lived here all my life (30 years) and have never heard the South Roanoke area referred to as "SoRo" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.188.26.77 (talk) 02:50, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

"Roanoke is an Indian word for..."

So far, the only definitive answer for what "roanoke" meant that I've found is "shell money" in the Algonquin language. The river that is currently named the Roanoke River was also known as the "river of death", but that is not what "roanoke" means. "River of death" is only another name for what is now named the Roanoke River, not another meaning of "roanoke". –BozoTheScary 22:06, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

More history

In 1802 Roanoke was called Roan Oak, the original indian name. you can find this info in the Virginia room in the library downtown Roanoke. http://www.salemmuseum.org/images/pubs/chapter1.pdf

In Virginia around Roanoke the New River is called the 'River of Death' http://www.wvexp.com/index.php/New_River#Variant_Names_for_New_River In Roanoke, the Roanoke River is called the 'Mighty Roanoke' or 'River of Life' There are references in Roanoke Rapids, NC where the river is refered to the 'River of Death' http://digitalrepository.fws.gov/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/wildliferef&CISOPTR=151&REC=10

MySpace people refer to Roanoke Va as Nokie

History

I went a little hog wild on a reorg after trying to add some sensible refs. The article could still use some major refs and could probably benefit from a more "modern" ref strategy for organizing them, since there are so many comprehensive histories of Roanoke out there. Things that still appear to need attention:

• Did a "Gainsboro" or a "Gainsborough" predate "Big Lick"?
• One doesn't need to be particularly PC to see that article is glaringly missing historical info on:
  • the African-American former slave communities
  • the Indian tribes that ostensibly frequented the salt licks for game
  • the city's prominent immigrant communities:
    • Greeks
    • Brazilians
    • Southeast Asians

–BozoTheScary 04:32, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Citation style

With the albatross of the unreferenced tag hanging over this article, now would probably be a good time to consider switching to the Citation templates style. I was gung ho about it until I read that it wasn't preferred, it shouldn't be used without consensus, and it is a lot of work. Are there enough folks looking at this article for the word 'consensus' to mean anything? –BozoTheScary 02:14, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Toyota plant

I'm going to remove the paragraph about the Toyota plant since another location was selected. Frankly, I'm not convinced that Virginia in general or the Roanoke area in particular were ever seriously considered by Toyota. Most media outlets except for the NY Times have not mentioned Virginia as a location considered.

VaGuy1973 01:40, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I have heard that Roanoke lost consideration for the Toyota plant when the Site Search Committee read the high school graduation statistics. ~~ RC ~~

Citation for Elevation of 1175ft

The USGS gives an elevation for city of Roanoke as 940ft, and the USGS lat/long for the city are very close to a benchmark with elevation of 939 feet. (Check www.topozone.com to verify.) So where did the 1175ft figure come from? There are outlying parts of the city that high, but elevation of a city (as USGS means it) means the elevation of some major landmark downtown.

A quick Google search revealed hits for a wide range of elevations. Since Mill Mountain is inside the city, the potential range will be large. What does the city's web site claim? –BozoTheScary 17:18, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[The city site] gives 1149 ft. We can quote that for the time being. - BillCJ 17:26, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

I've changed it to a range using the lowest low I could find and the highest high. There really is a lot of contradictory elevation data on the city (and even the airport). Since Mill Mountain is in the city, there is a large range. –BozoTheScary 21:41, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

The 1847' height is for the top of 'Star', obviously a manmade structure. The highest natural point on Mill Mountain (which is indeed within city limits) is 1740'. Groups such as the County Highpointers take these distinctions very seriously. See http://www.cohp.org/va/Roanoke_City_1.html. 128.173.49.45 13:49, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Good work! —BozoTheScary 20:03, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Photos

This article could use more photos, but don't replace Ben Schumin's nighttime shot of downtown as the box photo unless it shows aliens cruising down Campbell Avenue mooning Zsa Zsa Gábor. Well, maybe a decent shot of the Star at night or something interesting, but not a daytime shot of the Bank Merger of the Month Corp. Building. —BozoTheScary 03:12, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

List of neighborhoods in Roanoke, Virginia

I recently created a List of neighborhoods in Roanoke, Virginia to include in this article. I have placed it under the government heading as I was not sure as to where else to place it. Please feel free to move the link elsewhere on the page if there is a better location for it. Patriarca12 (talk) 01:19, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Famous Quotes?

Any source for the famous Roanoke quotes? I have lived in Roanoke all my life and have NEVER heard any of these. They seem very random. RL 1977 (talk) 04:13, 19 October 2008 (UTC)RL 1977

I agree. Without any descriptive text (who said them, why they are relevant, etc.), they just look like vandalism. I removed them. If anyone wants to replace them, please add some explanation of relevance or background info. Anyway, the person who added the most recent "quotes" appears to be a vandal. Leena (talk) 01:06, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Refimprove tag

A large number of references have been added since the Refimprove tag was laid down. Are there any objections to removing it? Does the article meet some threshold of citations? —BozoTheScary (talk) 14:16, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Looks like nobody's watching. Guess I'll remove it. I hope no one notices. On another topic, can you be ironic if you mention being ironic? —BozoTheScary (talk) 22:25, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Looking for the Roanoke Times article that will site sores Toshiba to TMEIC change 67.211.144.2 (talk) 12:09, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Government

I reverted a series of edits by 152.130.7.65.

These were essentially material removed previously by me with the comment "removed old election results; removed unsupported categorizations". I removed details about elections that were not the latest elections for the offices and were otherwise not notable from an encyclopedic perspective. (They might be appropriate for a Politics in Roanoke, Virginia article, if such a thing existed.) I also removed the categorization "anti-change" as potentially WP:POV and as otherwise unsupported by any reference.

I reverted the reinstatement of this material with prejudice. The edit comment "This person made an edit to the government section, possibly to support a hidden political agenda," violates WP:AGF. However, that doesn't bear against the edits.

The edits failed for removing a fact tag without a supporting ref, for potentially POV categorizations, and for election minutiae that has become non-notable history from elections that were not the most recent elections. The new references don't support the notability of the old elections, nor do they support the categorizations. –BozoTheScary (talk) 22:40, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Tom Perriello was defeated in the last congressional election by Robert Hurt. The page is protected, someone please change this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.2.12.12 (talk) 18:44, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Taubman Museum Image?

I think it might be a good idea to show off the Taubman Museum of Art more. It's an impressive building. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.48.60.35 (talk) 19:17, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

The Taubman Museum of Art isn't even mentioned in the Landmarks and Points of Interest Section —Mitchejb (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:30, 22 March 2010 (UTC).

Snowfall

We received 17.8 inches, measured at the Roanoke Regional Airport, in the snowstorm December 18-19 2009. The Climate section still says that the last snowfall of a foot or more was in 1996.

Nerdly dood (talk) 22:37, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Find a reliable source (and it shouldn't be that hard to find), and then make it so while citing that reliable source. SchuminWeb (Talk) 05:02, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Pending changes

This article is one of a number (about 100) selected for the early stage of the trial of the Wikipedia:Pending Changes system on the English language Wikipedia. All the articles listed at Wikipedia:Pending changes/Queue are being considered for level 1 pending changes protection.

The following request appears on that page:

Comments on the suitability of theis page for "Penfding changes" would be appreciated.

Please update the Queue page as appropriate.

Note that I am not involved in this project any much more than any other editor, just posting these notes since it is quite a big change, potentially

Regards, Rich Farmbrough, 23:45, 16 June 2010 (UTC).

Roanoke Montage

Hello. Noob here. I took the liberty of updating the infobox image to use a montage that I created. Hope I'm not stepping on anybody's toes. Just want to help make the Roanoke wiki page a FA. Thanks! --Ghoti143 (talk) 20:43, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

City Seal

Is the City Seal image found in the infobox still valid? I followed the hyperlink given in the image's description, but didn't see the seal at that URL. I've been a city resident for 5 years and haven't ever seen that seal. Thanks! --Ghoti143 (talk) 20:43, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Notable residents

Curtis Turner was a famous NASCAR legend who lived in Roanoke most of his life but is not mentioned under notable residents. He raised his family here in Roanoke and his daughter still lives here. She wants to open a Curtis Turner museum in Roanoke. Curtis was born in Floyd but lived in the Williamson Rd, Peters Creek area. There's been a book written about him called "Full Throttle" and he has a wiki page. There was also a documentary done a few years ago that Senator Warner narrated about Curtis Turner. Curtis raced at the first Daytona 500 when it was raced on the Beach. He also built Charlotte Motor Speedway. He orginially wanted to build it in the Cave Spring area(Starkey). He died in 1970 and is buried in the cemitary near the Roanoke Airport. How do we get him added to Notable Residents? Also we should have a street named after him. [[1]] Flowerchild18 (talk) 02:11, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Curtis Turner

Curtis Turner was a famous NASCAR legend who lived in Roanoke most of his life but is not mentioned under notable residents. He raised his family here in Roanoke and his daughter still lives here. She wants to open a Curtis Turner museum in Roanoke. Curtis was born in Floyd but lived in the Williamson Rd, Peters Creek area. There's been a book written about him called "Full Throttle" and he has a wiki page. There was also a documentary done a few years ago that Senator Warner narrated about Curtis Turner. Curtis raced at the first Daytona 500 when it was raced on the Beach. He also built Charlotte Motor Speedway. He orginially wanted to build it in the Cave Spring area(Starkey). He died in 1970 and is buried in the cemitary near the Roanoke Airport. How do we get him added to Notable Residents? Also we should have a street named after him. Flowerchild18 (talk) 15:56, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 18 May 2012

I would like to request a change from Mid-Atlantic to Southern state as the classification of Virginia. Yes we are technically a Mid-Atlantic state but as a native Virginian I can tell you that most if not all Virginians identify as being Southern. The only reason Virginia has seemed less Southern is due to the influx of Northerners into the state especially in Northern Virginia, or as we call it, 'Occupied Virginia'. I believe and know, along with many in Virginia and the U.S.A., that Virginia is more Southern than it is Mid-Atlantic so if possible, I would appreciate it if y'all could change it to Southern. Thank You

98.185.21.41 (talk) 01:29, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. If you click over to Mid-Atlantic states, you'll see a lengthy and sourced article on how this region is defined, including through an official designation by the U.S. Census Bureau. (Though the article does make the caveat that Virginia and West Virginia are atypical in comparison to the other states that are in the group.) elektrikSHOOS (talk) 07:05, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

About

In 2012, Roanoke was designated for the sixth time as an All-America City – winning this award more than any other city – based on its “Star City Reads” efforts to promote reading on grade level by third grade.

Digibrarian (talk) 16:15, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Ross Copperman

Ross Copperman is undeniably notable. If he's not, his WP page should be deleted. Anyway, 235 non-vanity, on-subject unique Ghits (97000 non-unique) says that he's notable. The Alexa ranking of his site is weak (2,860,603), but the Alexa ranking of an article about him is quite strong (http://www.jmu.edu/madisononline/RossCopperman.shtml 28,325). Anyway, he is reasonably notable in the UK, which is good enough for the WP.

The trouble is that he's not from Roanoke City. He's from somewhere very close and much whiter, but I can't find a place name. All I have is "10 minutes from Roanoke", "in the Blue Ridge Mountains", and "one black kid in our school". Which reminds me that we need a Roanoke Metropolitan Area article to cut down on the need for such pedantics. –BozoTheScary 04:15, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

^ I may move him from notable residents here to Salem, VA or Roanoke Country. Not sure if he grew up in Roanoke or Salem, but he went to school at Glenvar High just outside of Salem, VA in Roanoke Country. Not sure where those quotes come from but if it is referring to Glenvar High School, there was never a time during his life that there was "one black kid" in the school(nor any of the other public schools in the area). Since there seems to be no definitive info on where he came from, maybe we should just add him to "notable alumni" of Glenvar High School? UselessToRemain (talk) 22:32, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Notable residents

Why isn't Lynn Bari added to notable residence. She was a fairly well-known star in the Golden era of Hollywood. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.221.119.241 (talk) 14:04, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm a newby here. A lot of you guys have done some great editing. I was wondering if I could add something about Oscar Micheaux or the Royal Kings.Pommerenke 18:51, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

From the sound of the crickets chirping, I'd say that you can feel free to knock yourself out. It would be very nice (arguably mandatory) if you could support your edits with references, preferably from books or newspapers. If you need help, just post it here. I'll chime in eventually. —BozoTheScary 21:25, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

As far as I know, "Entrepreneur Cameron Johnson[53]" still lives with his parents and is not notable. Also he had his Wikipedia vanity page deleted, so I can't confirm this wild speculation.

Edit request on 10 April 2013

Crime-- Please change the following information about crime on the City of Roanoke, Virginia Wikipedia page...

From:

The studies of Dr. Isaac Van Patten, a criminologist from Radford University discovered that Roanoke’s rates of rape and aggravated assault were the highest in the state of Virginia in 2004. Roanoke had seen a total increase in violent crimes from 1985 until 2003, surpassing every Virginia city, only Portsmouth had seen a larger increase in crime. Van Patten is not suggesting that Roanoke's overall violent crime rate was the highest in the state over the 18-year period, just that it saw the largest total increase.[22] According to the FBI data, the crime rates in Roanoke for murder, rape, aggravated assault and motor vehicle theft all decreased from 2006 to 2007, while the rates of robberies and burglaries increased. In 2007, Roanoke was ranked as Virginia’s second most dangerous city; in 2008 the city was ranked as the fifth worst city in Virginia.[23]

To:

The following statistics regarding crime in the City of Roanoke have been verified by as of April 2013:

Violent Crime: -35.56% YTD comparison with 2012 YTD with a five year change of -45.69%

Property Crime: -42.07% YTD comparison with 2012 YTD with a five year change of -33.9%

Overall Crime: -41.33% YTD comparison with 2012 YTD with a five year change of -36.41%

The district within Zone 4 that includes the Melrose DMI area is our policing District 8. District 8 stats are as follows:

Violent Crime: -71.43% YTD comparison with 2012 YTD with a five year change of -78.65%

Property Crime: -55.56% YTD comparison with 2012 YTD with a five year change of -48.35%

Overall Crime: -57.38% YTD comparison with 2012 YTD with a five year change of -53.43%

Shoebox777 (talk) 21:15, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Not done: First off, I know you're not making this all up, but you'll need to cite a more specific source. If the Roanoke PD has a website for these stats, you'll need to reference that. If it's a report of some kind, what's the title and date? Also, while there are certainly occasions where a block of data is necessary in the form of a table or something, I don't think it's necessary here - just for reasons of readability, I'm not going to replace the existing prose with a bunch of facts and figures. Cite your source and write it in a more understandable form, and that's what should be included in the article. --ElHef (Meep?) 04:50, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 7 September 2013- Mill Mountain Theatre information under the "arts" category

Mill Mountain Theatre, Ronaoke's only regional professional equity theatre, is located on the first floor of Center in the Square in Downtown Roanoke. MMT produces year-round plays and musicals on the Trinkle Main Stage and the smaller Waldron Stage. Rooted strongly in the Roanoke community, MMT has proudly served the region and industry for 50 years. Through partnerships with Hollins University and others, MMT hosts other arts venues such as "No Shame Theatre”, “Overnight Sensations” and “Big Lick Conspiracy.”

MMT also offers year-round theatre arts education through the Mill Mountain Theatre Conservatory (MMTC). MMTC provides instruction in Acting, Music Theatre, Dance, & Technical Theatre for emerging artists ages Pre-K through Adults. All classes are taught by experienced, working industry professionals, with performance opportunities on MMT's Main Stages. Afkimmell (talk) 16:12, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

•  Not done The above is certainly very spammy in the way they're phrased. In an article about a city, who cares about "...Theatre for emerging artists..." ... we don't advertise services in this manner. Perhaps you can obtain WP:CONSENSUS for adding the theatre itself, but you would need to have that discussion and obtain such consensus before requesting the edit be performed ES&L 11:45, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Request to change image of city seal

The City of Roanoke changed its seal earlier this year.

You can find a new picture of the seal here.

Shoebox777 (talk) 19:23, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

Not done: You need to upload the graphic of the new seal and deal with copyright/non-free problems, then open a request to insert the file into the article. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 02:06, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Request to add publication listing

|answered=yes}}

Growing Up In the Valley is a monthly free publication for Roanoke families. It is produced by MoFat publishing.

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Bear in mind that Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collector of information - your sources must indicate this publication is of notable Cannolis (talk) 14:11, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Link to sources - www.growingupinthevalley.com and Facebook.com/growingupinthevalley Josheagan (talk) 05:38, 22 April 2014 (UTC)josheagan

Semi-protected edit request on 13 June 2014

The URLs for three of your External Links need to be updated. The "Old Roanoke" site is now: http://oldroanoke.net The "Lendy's Web Page" site is now: http://oldroanoke.net/lendys/ The "Kenney's Web Page" is now: http://oldroanoke.net/kenneyburgers/

Thanks.

Twiggrav (talk) 05:51, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Done Thanks, Older and ... well older (talk) 16:02, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 June 2014

The section on Crime is extremely outdated:

Crime

This section's factual accuracy may be compromised due to out-of-date information. Please update this article to reflect recent events or newly available information. (May 2013) The studies of Dr. Isaac Van Patten, a criminologist from Radford University discovered that Roanoke’s rates of rape and aggravated assault were the highest in the state of Virginia in 2004. Roanoke had seen a total increase in violent crimes from 1985 until 2003, surpassing every Virginia city, only Portsmouth had seen a larger increase in crime. Van Patten is not suggesting that Roanoke's overall violent crime rate was the highest in the state over the 18-year period, just that it saw the largest total increase.[29] According to the FBI data, the crime rates in Roanoke for murder, rape, aggravated assault and motor vehicle theft all decreased from 2006 to 2007, while the rates of robberies and burglaries increased. In 2007, Roanoke was ranked as Virginia’s second most dangerous city; in 2008 the city was ranked as the fifth worst city in Virginia.[30]

Gangs

This section's factual accuracy may be compromised due to out-of-date information. Please update this article to reflect recent events or newly available information. (May 2013) The presence of genuine gang activity in Roanoke is a strongly debated subject. While some neighborhoods have gang-like organizations, many of which are engaged in drug distribution, like the Lincoln Terrace Posse and Villa Heights 1,[31] some law enforcement officers say that they are "mostly for show" as compared to the more militant and dangerous gangs that have a presence in multiple cities.[32]

Part of the argument in favor of acknowledging Roanoke's neighborhood groups as gangs comes from state politicians, like former attorney general Jerry Kilgore, part of it comes from the groups themselves who actively proclaim their legitimate existence as criminal and violent gangs in a DVD released for sale in the local area. In 2007, a DVD titled "Real Talk" appeared in Roanoke convenience stores depicting gang life in Roanoke. The 95-minute video includes references to the "Lincoln Terrace Posse" ("LTP"), "Villa Heights", and "Southwest" ("SW"). The local NAACP president, while outraged by the content of the DVD, disagreed that there were "full-fledged" gangs in Roanoke and felt that the presence of a camera played a big part in encouraging the behavior displayed.[33]

If there must be a section on crime at all, please update it to read:

"As of 2014, violent crime in the City of Roanoke is down 50% and overall crime is down 30% since 2005. In 2013, the Police Department opened a new iStar center with a team of analysts who track crime, traffic and other data. Police are using that data to predict where crimes might occur in the future, beef up patrols in the suspected area and, in the process, deter criminals."

Billgeist (talk) 17:56, 16 June 2014 (UTC)billgeist

 Done. There is no need for a section on crime in my opinion. DJAMP4444 19:23, 17 June 2014 (UTC)