Talk:Rixi Markus

Not Romanian

I think her biography makes it clear that she was not Romanian in any sense: not culturally, not legally, and not linguistically. The dismemberment of the Austro-Hungarian Empire left some of it in Romania today, but to call individual people like her Romanian is without any sense, and I think it would be consistent with Wiki guidelines to remove those flags and other symbols. She was, however, legally British after her naturalisation in 1950. Macdonald-ross (talk) 17:35, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

That was previously changed.

Today I made her Austrian and British in the lead sentence. She won international bridge championships on Austria and Great Britain national teams. I revised the explanation of her birthplace to say that OEB "lists her as born in Austria. Bukovina was a duchy in the Austro-Hungarian Empire 1775–1918." --P64 (talk) 18:17, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

The 6th edition of the OEB says she was born in Romania; the OEB does changes details in bios and the latest edition should be presumed to be the most accurate. The WBF site explains further on her place of birth as is stated in the current Wiki version. Newwhist (talk) 13:04, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

If OEB says simply that she was born in Romania, I have a major problem with that! But no one now disputes where she was born and the article is OK. (I hope to formulate a technical point about the reference but, if so, I will say it elsewhere.) --P64 (talk) 17:27, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Gura Humorului is WSW of Suczawa, thus almost in Moldavia 1856; the south central city with large German and Polish populations in Bukovina 1930; at the center of Suceava County in Romania today. --P64 (talk) 14:40, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Markus and Stern

I've removed the bit about Paul Stern returning his Iron Cross because, though a good story, it seems not very relevant in an article about Markus. If someone decides to restore it, it can also be found in Stern's own article, where its source is given as being Reference 10 of the article. Oddly, the edition that I have of the ACBL Encyclopaedia, the fifth, doesn't have an entry for Stern, a remarkable oversight.

I've also restored the spelling of "protégée". My copy of the Concise Oxford Engliah Dictionary includes the accents, and the word looks wrong to me without them. (Maybe it's different in American English? It seems appropriate to use British English for this article, though, in accordance with Wikipedia's guideline.) JH (talk page) 09:04, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Agree on both points. Stern not in the 6th edition of the OEB and last in the 4th edition where the reference is "Number 11 on the Nazi list for extermination, he returned his World War I Iron Cross to the Nazi High Cammand with an insulting letter." Newwhist (talk) 11:33, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Owning only editions 1 and 4, I am stunned that the Franci & Co. deleted Paul Stern. (Since Truscott held the same position for all six editions, and for other reasons, I don't blame him for this either ;)

I agree regarding the Iron Cross. (My recall of the insulting letter and #11 from reading OEB1 or 4, i feel sure, is why I suspect the sidebar by Campanile &c is mainly from OEB.)

I disagree regarding protege and I would italicize it as a foreign word with the diacritics. That's beside the point here, more important at Walter Herbert, so I refer you there. --P64 (talk) 17:20, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

I've had a look, and assuming that you mean Walter Herbert (conductor) I can't find the word used there. I would argue that if the word - with its acute accents - appears in the OED then it must be a "naturalised" English word - which seems very apt when describing a naturalised British person! Thus it doesn't require italics. I would put it in the same category as "fiancé" (male) and "fiancée" (female), where again both I and the OED include the accent. However if you would prefer to italicise such words, I don't mind, Incidentally, I'm surprised to learn that ISBNs are deprecated. It seems a useful piece of information to give, and the cite template has an isbn parameter. JH (talk page) 17:48, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

ISBN (This issue should be moved elsewhere.) Deprecated? Recently I have improved some OEB references and observed that they remain deprecated (old edition? incomplete format?) and I have deleted multiple ISBN from {cite} template data (neither two values in one 'isbn' field nor two 'isbn' fields generate two ISBN displays).
We do/should/will provide multiple ISBN and much other bibliographic data for the Encyclopedia editions at Official Encyclopedia of Bridge. When I notice the unlinked reference to any edition, I link the one that occurs first in the article. (By the way does anyone here use the "European edition"? Did they make substantial changes, or simply pay a Euro-editor to insert more characters from European alphabets ;) and so on?) --P64 (talk) 15:15, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Markus and Reese

I recall reading somewhere that Markus was a staunch supporter of Reese and Schapiro after the Buenos Aires affair and snubbed Truscott when they had occasion to meet. Will try to find the reference in my wonderings and add it as another indication of her fiery personality. Newwhist (talk) 11:45, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Her staunch support is so famous that I recall she wrote the British book on the scandal —but I'm wrong, Reese wrote the book.

Otherwise see Alan Truscott and/or Dorothy Hayden Truscott, References or External links, from one of their obituaries iirc.

(Reese also went out of his way to call Markus the greatest female player, perhaps even to suggest consensus, while Dorothy was frequently so honored here, and winning major Open events as well as Women world championships.) --P64 (talk) 17:13, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Maybe Reese changed his mind, as at one point he said that Fritzi Gordon was a better player than Rixi, something I included as a quote in Gordon's article. As to Dorothy Truscott, I dare say that he may have been somewhat biassed against her following Buenos Aires. JH (talk page) 17:35, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

WBF title

The WBF website does not designate a title for Markus and yet the Wiki article says she became a 'World Bridge Federation Grandmaster'. I have sent an email today to the WBF making an enquiry but when I have done so in the past I have never received a reply or aknowledgement. Does anybody have a reference to backup the title? Newwhist (talk) 12:48, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

You were looking on the right website but in the wrong place! I've added the appropriate reference. JH (talk page) 17:15, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Actually I did see and read the Jourdain article but did not accept it as 'official' WBF. I assumed that the profile would be the 'official' repository of information on the title. However, having looked at some other profiles, most notably Terence Reese, it seems that the WBF does not keep the title and masterpoint information as the first entry in the profile if one is dead. I guess one cannot 'be' a WGM if one is not 'being'. In any case, the proper term is 'World Grand Master' not 'World Grandmaster', notwithstanding the Jourdain article Newwhist (talk) 11:35, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Monte Carlo in 1954

> "Markus was captain of the winning team at Monte Carlo in 1954 ..."
What tournament? It isn't even listed as one of her other wins. --P64 (talk) 17:30, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

I have looked around the WBF site and found no Monte Carlo event in 1954. Perhaps a more thorough search than mine will uncover something - please, someone else have a go at it. I did, however, find a reference in Reese's book Bridge at the Top to Rixi Markus where starting on page 53 Reese discusses "a world championship match at Monte Carlo early in 1954" won by the USA. Reese writes that before returning home, the winning US team was invited to play Britain in a match (sponsored by Simpson's - a store in Piccadilly) against "the home team" of Meredith, Konstam, Mayer, Schapiro and Reese (Dodds was invited but unavailable). On page 57, Reese concludes the story with "The Americans had no luck in this match and lost by a big margin." He then goes on to write "Later in the year the same team, with Rixi Markus in place of Meredith, won an international event at Monte Carlo." He then recounts an aside anecdote but offers no further commentary on Markus or the event. There is no reference to a 1954 win by Markus in her bio in the OEB 6th edition and non listed on her WBF profile. So, was it also an invitational event of some sort and not a WBF or EBL sanctioned event? Does anyone have her book A Vulnerable Game: the memoirs of Rixi Markus and if so, does she refer to the event in it? Newwhist (talk) 14:05, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

I have found a specific reference on page 87-88 of Markus' book A Vulnerable Game: the memoirs of Rixi Markus.

"In 1954, before the European Championship, I took part in the International Bridge Festival at Monte Carlo, always a pleasant place to play and now a major fixture of the Bridge year. I was captain of a team made up of Leslie Dodds, Kenneth Konstam, Terence Reese, Boris Schapiro and Adam Meredith; it would have been hard to pick a stronger team in Britain that year. We played three a side - a better arrangement than three pairs - Dodds, Konstam and I played together, with Reese, Schapiro and Meredith forming the other trio. We played the same system - CAB 2 Club, Ace response, and Blackwood while the others played their favourite version of ACOL, in fact a very pure version. It was a strong field, with sixty or seventy teams from all over the world, including the United States and several other major Bridge nations. My team played very well and to everyone's surprise, even our own, we emerged the clear winners of this team event. Naturally, we felt very pleased with ourselves, and following a discussion on the golf course (Reese and Konstam were keen golfers) my team-mates told me they intended to propose me as a sixth member of the British Open team for the European Championship at Montreux in a few months' time. The winners of the European Championship were to meet the United States in a world match for the Bermuda Bowl later in the year. I naturally longed to play in both matches. I felt that in women's Bridge I had reached the zenith - three European Championships for Austria and two for Britain - and it was a natural ambition to play in the Open Championship."

The "International Bridge Festival" at Monte Carlo (obviously an open teams event) in 1954 predates the formation of the WBF in 1958. Newwhist (talk) 16:30, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Also note that Reese's list for the team members at the International Bridge Festival at Monte Carlo has Markus as replacing Meredith (the others being Konstam, Reese, Schapiro, Mayer and (presumably) Dodds); Markus' listing includes Meredith and excludes Mayer. Newwhist (talk) 16:38, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

According to the New York Times the team consisted of Markus, Reese, Schapiro, Dodds and Konstam. There is no mention of Mayer. Meredith played with Roger Trezel on a team captained by Pierre Albarran. 109.92.63.66 (talk) 01:04, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Another source

I've found Alan Truscott's NYT obituary of Markus [1]. I've no time at the moment to see if there's anything we can use. I'm hoping that there might also be a NYT obit of Fritzi Gordon that we can use.

I have edited in all I thought was appropriate; double check please and thank you. Newwhist (talk) 12:21, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

And another source

There's a profile of Rixi on page 16 of the September 1948 issue of the Contract Bridge Journal, but I don't think it adds much that is new. JH (talk page) 20:58, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

EBL and WBF player records

(Formally the target pages include "playing record" and other sections; player record may be poor wording by me this hour.)

Are separate references to the two pages useful? If so, which differences make both useful?

I reworded the note inside [ref name=EBLrecord] in a way that suggests no relevant difference.

The first world teams championships, 1937 in Budapest, were also the European championships and appear once in the EBL and WBF shared database as "6th European Teams Championships".

--P64 (talk) 03:01, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

If one were a mirror served independently, it would provide a backup source. I guess that is not true; they merely use different domain names, one or both as alias for a single server. For Sophocles Venizelos both EBL and WBF records were unavailable to me last hour; same for Markus as I write. (Identically "500 - Internal server error.")

--P64 (talk) 22:39, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Name at birth

When we give her name in bold at the start of the article we say "Rika", but later we say that at birth she was "was born as Erika (Rixi) Scharfstein". Is "Rika" a typo, or were both forms used? I think we either need to decide on one or the other (if the former) or include a note to clarify (if the latter). JH (talk page) 10:08, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

I agree. Rika seems to me a nickname halfway between given Erika and nick Rixi. Enough so that I would have replaced it with Erika yesterday if we did not provide {{OEB|5|686}} as a source for lead name specifically. (I have OEB eds. 1 and 4, not at hand, iirc.) --P64 (talk) 22:47, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

I have OEB 5th edition and it does indeed have "Rika". But I'd be inclined to give greater weight to the biography on the EBU website by Patrick Jourdain (which is included among our article's references), which has "Erika". Maybe switch it to "Erika", but with a note saying that OEB has "Rika"? JH (talk page) 10:16, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

In her autobiography, A Vulnerable Game, on page 3, she writes about her older sister's birth - "...Eugenia was born in January 1908...She was always known to us as Genia, just as I, when I arrived two-and-a-half years later, quickly became Rika." Newwhist (talk) 13:00, 1 September 2018 (UTC) …

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Margo Lorenz/Markus

Are there any other sources identifying the actress Margo Lorenz with Rixi Markus's daughter Margo/Margot Markus? The connection is made almost as an aside in "Bridge Tips From the Masters", but I can't find it in any internet sources. The Encyclopedia of British Film gives Margo Lorenz's birth year as 1935 rather than 1929 but this was likely publicity to bill her as younger than she actually was. Her acting career was brief, spanning from 1955 to 1962, and she probably doesn't merit a separate article. Was the name "Lorenz" a stage name or a married name? I don't have Rixi Markus's autobiography but this is probably the best source to shed light on the matter. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 10:59, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

I have the book A Vulnerable Game in which Markus writes:

• on page 27, "On the evening of 26 March I went into labour, and miraculously, Gerda Margo Markus was born on the 27th, at 7 am."
• on page 116, "She contracted breast cancer..." and "She died on 15 July, 1976, at the age of forty-six."

So testing using the template{{BirthDeathAge}}, to find her year of birth so as to result in her age at death to be 46, puts her date of birth at 27 March 1930.

Newwhist (talk) 12:24, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

This admittedly unreliable source gives her birth year as 1929. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 01:36, 2 September 2018 (UTC)