Talk:Riverdale, Toronto

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The following commentary was moved from the article:

PLEASE NOTE there is no such thing as "upper" and "lower" Riverdale or “North Riverdale”. And I’ve never heard anyone used the terms. I’m guessing that real estate agents might now be using such terms to sell houses to those who are not knowledgeable about this area or Toronto. There is no real class distinction in Toronto (or so we hope).

Due to the current housing boom, South Riverdale is following Cabbagetown’s path and is currently going through gentrification, and is one of the second last main areas (not counting St. James Town) in Toronto to do so. Gentrification is also starting to take root in Parkdale.

In the inside streets close to Queen street, what many times were run down "workers cottages" from the 19th and early 20th century, have became the gentrifier’s latest find. What were run down storefronts eking by two years ago, are now interesting little shops, antiques stores, and over priced trendy restaurants. I’ve never seen an area changed so fast. Little had changed on Queen St. East from the 1950's to the late 1990's, as evident in the store fronts, old hanging signs, and many small diners, some of which are unfortunately being converted to trendy restaurants and Bistros.

This area has always been a working and poor neighbourhood. One just needs to look up and down Carlaw, across Eastern, Lakeshore and Dundas to see the old industry, and the up and coming new trendy live/work conversions.

Make no doubts about it, but the poor and underprivileged haven’t moved out quite yet, and some are still part of the street scene, as Wooodgreen (a social organization), which started from the church many years ago can attest to. More so, it seems homeless people are moving into the area, possibly from the perpetually seedy Queen and Sherbourne, where condos are also probably going up. Who would of thought in this lifetime. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.38.192.219 (talk • contribs)

Please Do not add information if you just bought a house in Riverdale a few years back, and now live in the area.

"The area's high real estate prices have encouraged many residents to call adjacent areas Riverdale too. Names such as South Riverdale (which stretches north from Lakeshore to Gerrard and east from the Don Valley Parkway to Carlaw) are a construct of real estate agents."

The areas that are not Riverdale proper, like South Riverdale, are not totally new new constructs. The above sentences make it sound like the name appearded with the last years years due to the housing boom. I think the area has been referred to as South Riverdale since the late 70's.

Blake Jones vs. The Pocket

The Pocket and Blake Jones are two separate things. The Pocket as described in article is synonymous with Blake Jones, but that is not how it is known within the community. The Pocket is an area only accessible from Jones, it ends at Chatham at the North and Boultbee at the south, with the TTC yard at Greenwood being the eastern verge.

There ought to be a distinction in the article, if not it's own article. There are a number of published articles that support this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Moomot (talk • contribs) 21:52, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Paula Fletcher

It's a historical fact that Paula Fletcher was leader of the Manitoba Communist Party from 1981 to 1986. Her still being elected despite her dodgy past demonstrates the leftist nature of Riverdale's electorate and politics, and this needs to be shown to the readership. The editor EncyclopediaUpdaticus is obviously trying to hide this fact to protect Fletcher.

If editor insists on removing Fletcher's time as a Communist Leader, then the mention of Jack Layton as late leader of NDP must also be removed for consistency.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.69.46.201 (talk) 21:39, 27 December 2011 (UTC) 

Third opinion

Johnathlon (talk · contribs) wants to offer a third opinion. To assist with the process, editors are requested to summarize the dispute in a short sentence below.

Viewpoint by (T C)

It's a historical fact that Paula Fletcher was leader of the Manitoba Communist Party from 1981 to 1986. Her still being elected city councillor by voters despite her dodgy past demonstrates the leftist nature of Riverdale's electorate and political climate, and it's appropriate for it to be displayed. The rest of the section demonstrates Riverdale's extreme-leftist slant relative to the rest of English-speaking Canada. In the very next sentence, Jack Layton's sentence discusses that he was the late leader of another political party, the NDP, and this has been present in this article for years with no attempt to delete it. For consistency, if Layton's mention as NDP leader is included, then Fletcher's time as Communist leader is also appropriate.

Viewpoint by (name here)

....

Third opinion by Johnathlon

While I strongly disagree with "T C"'s (207.7.149.37) motives here (which are clearly to use wikipedia as a soapbox to advocate against someone who he disagrees with) there is no reason to not include this information. This information is verifiable and the source is reliable. Further, it follows the rest of the page by including the party leadership information for the other representatives. Unless an alternative or compromise can be put forward by other editors, I'm going to agree with inclusion of this information. Further, I am ready and eager to hear a compromise from the other side (which seems to not understand how to use a talk page).

Note for 207.7.149.37: neutral point of view is a central policy of wikipedia and applies to the talk pages as well. Statements like "extreme-leftist slant" and "dodgy past" have no place on wikipedia unless they are quotes from a reliable source. Also please sign your posts with four tildes.

This is an article about a neighbourhood in Toronto. It is not an article on Fletcher. Her involvement with a fringe political party, two decades ago in another province, might be verifiable and reliable, but that does not necessarily make it relevant to this article (although I would certainly think it is relevant to the Fletcher article). What we need are reliable source(s) that show a direct link/relevance between Fletcher's involvement with the communist party and the politics of this neighbourhood. Absent such linkages, any attempts to draw conclusions about this neighbourhood based on Fletcher's activities in Manitoba in the 1980s is an exercise in WP:OR and WP:SYN. For the same reason, I wouldn't necessarily include references to any of Rob Ford's verifiable past exploits in articles on Etobicoke or Etobicoke North, unless there was a clear relevance to the articles on the neighbourhood/ward/riding. The same applies to any other politician and related neighbourhood articles.

As I have not seen any such link/relevance demonstrated, I do not agree with the inclusion of details about Fletcher's leadership of the Manitoba communist party. I echo Johnathlon's comment that TC's motivation for including the information is wholly inapproriate and runs counter to Wikipedia policies. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 16:25, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

And just as an aside, Layton's party leadership is relevant because he was NDP leader when he represented this area as a federal MP. Fletcher, on the other hand, represents this area as a Councillor on City Council, where there are no official party affiliations. Therefore, unless someone can dig up some reliable sources as mentioned above, there isn't a directly relevant party affiliation in Fletcher's case.--Skeezix1000 (talk) 18:57, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

I agree that her former affiliation with a fringe group has nothing to do with an article about a neighbourhood. The reason why Jack Layton being NDP party leader was that he was leader of that party while being elected in this riding. Paula Fletcher was also "a singer with a group called the Rank and File in the early 1980s", some things can be well documented and factual but not important to an article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.29.23.144 (talk) 20:05, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

That's a good point. It raises some WP:NPOV issues if we mention only one item from what appears to be a relatively lengthy political career -- a selective mention intended to make a particular POV point. There needs to be some direct relevance to the neighbourhood to start mentioning specific aspects of her background. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 20:28, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

I suggest adding that she was a former school trustee for the area. She was a trustee from 2000-2003. If there is a need to show some notable past activity that is relevant to the neighbourhood this would be it. EncyclopediaUpdaticus (talk) 20:37, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

I agree with EncyclopediaUpdaticus that a more recent or more relevant historical note from her political career is appropriate. Clearly the geographical and temporal differences make the communist party addition inappropriate for this article and I did not see that before. What happened in this incident was an edit war. Please familiarize yourself with this wikipedia policy if you are not already familiar. Johnathlon (talk) 07:13, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Article needs attention

This article is mostly original research. Likely, well intentioned editors who live in some part or Riverdale have added their piece about the local boundaries or the best place to walk your dog. As a result, the article reads like vegetable stew. There's a bit about all the local schools near the top of the article, then later on there's another list of schools. As for one of Canada's most famous jails, the Don Jail, there's just a link with not even a sentence about its history. When unsourced edits aren't reverted, this is what you end up with. It seems like a lovely neighbourhood though! Magnolia677 (talk) 16:38, 19 September 2016 (UTC)