Talk:River Hyndburn

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brook and river

The 1:25K OS map sheet 287 shows a watercourse which, between Accrington and Clayton-le-Moors it names as the Hyndburn Brook. I cannot find any trace of the name 'River Hyndburn'. Can this be referenced somewhere or are they simply two names for one and the same watercourse, the preferred Ordnance Survey version of which is 'Hyndburn Brook'? Not saying it's wrong but Wikipedia needs the evidence. cheers Geopersona (talk) 18:12, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Geopersona a little late to respond to this I know, but this subject certainly seems to have issues. I'm confident the River Hyndburn exists, but I'm having a hard time with its extent. Although today much of its course is underground, from looking at a number of sources (mainly old maps), I've come to the following conclusion. It starts (underground) at 53°45′06″N 2°21′52″W / 53.751532°N 2.364318°W, the confluence of Woodnook and Broad Oak Waters and joins Hyndburn Brook at 53°45′48″N 2°23′46″W / 53.763361°N 2.396112°W. However this article and some sources with passing mentions, seem to include Woodnook Water and/or the lower section of Hyndburn Brook. The first edition OS map shows labels Hyndburn Brook but actually labels this watercourse (sections) as Accrington Brook and Church Brook and I can't find any evidence that they still exist as tributaries today.TiB chat 14:24, 6 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. This news report - https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/15456649.scheme-hopes-to-return-salmon-to-river-hyndburn/ - references the River Hyndburn as does this independent website - http://riverlevels.uk/calder-lancashire-milnshaw#.XSCx-ehKiUk and this official one - https://flood-warning-information.service.gov.uk/station/5223 - all useful in asserting the existence of the name (which I'd originally pondered on) as clearly others already now do within the article. cheers Geopersona (talk) 14:42, 6 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The Lancashire Telegraph source you link to is a great example of the issue I've found. On any map I've ever looked at, the Oakenshaw Printworks weir 53°46′43″N 2°23′41″W / 53.778573°N 2.394680°W is on the Brook not the River. I just can't find a good source to clearly define the River Hyndburn, maybe someone will in the next decade. Thanks TiB chat 15:24, 6 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The OS 25-inch map of 1911 at https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17&lat=53.7639&lon=-2.3967&layers=168&b=1 shows the junction between Hyndburn Brook and its tributary River Hyndburn, unambiguously labelled (almost exactly at the point where it passes under the M65 today, immediately west of J7, as identified by TiB). -- Dr Greg talk 16:21, 6 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that. We may as well define the end using that map as a source. Map sources will be tricky for the start, but I did find one [1] that contributed to the conundrum. This town plan circa 1851 labels the end of what I am asserting to be Woodnook Water as River Hyndburn. However this one [2] from 1891 neatly labels both streams at the confluence before they disappear underground. Emerging further north I do see a Hyndburn label. Maybe writing it as "beginning as Woodnook Water..." and leaving some ambiguity as to where the name changes is the way to go?TiB chat 17:44, 6 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sometimes ambiguity can be just the thing. Have to say that I can't recall ever seeing the situation before where a river is a tributary to a brook! Geopersona (talk) 19:59, 6 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]