Talk:Rise of the Planet of the Apes

Prequel to....

Prequel to the original Planet of the Apes? I was under the impression that this would be a prequel to the Tim Burton abomination? DigiFluid (talk) 01:10, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

It appears from the fact that the same font style has been chosen for publicity that this is a prequel to Tim Burton's effort.92.40.253.101 (talk) 11:10, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

No, this is not a prequel to the Burton film. Fox has been very clear on that--it's a complete reboot of the franchise. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.45.31.160 (talk) 03:49, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

I agree, the orginal movie has Ceaser being the offspring of Zira and Cornelius, he was already an evolved ape and left in the care of Armando. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TheRobbEllisonShow (talk • contribs) 17:07, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

It could be a parallel time track, avoiding the "predestination paradox" that would have occurred in the fourth movie had Milo renamed himself Aldo (assuming that Cornelius leaves Armando with a "reader's digest version" of his history to give to the child) after the first ape to talk. I prefer to think that when Zira, Cornelius and Dr. Milo went back in time, they created a parallel track, similar to how Doc Brown and Marty could leave 2015 and go back to 1985, but not be able to return to the same 2015 that they left. "Rise of the Apes" simply might be exploring territory as a prequel to the first movie, leading up to the conditions that Col. Taylor found; Zira and Cornelius leave that time track and enter one where they accelerate the process - they bring the dog/cat disease and it acts quickly. Admittedly, Caesar couldn't possibly govern a community of intelligent apes only a decade after leading them in revolt against Ape Management. It should take at least two generations even if Caesar and his offspring impregnate every female chimpanzee, and it doesn't explain the gorillas and orangutans. GBC (talk) 22:45, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Good point, however then there is the problem of the 'real' Aldo still since the (so far) last movie in the series was mostly about Ceasar and Aldo's fight for rule. And it shouldn't be forgot that in the very first movie gorillas' (Aldo's race of ape) seemed to have been more 'in charge' and even (If I remember well enough) the original Aldo is referred to as being a gorilla and his statue has a gorilla like physique. Then again, we'll see. It would be quite a good marketing idea to confuse everyone so they want to see the movie to get answers... 213.178.109.124 (talk) 16:04, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

FOX has never called the film a prequel. The only statement they have made is: "An origin story set in present day San Francisco, where man's own experiments with genetic engineering lead to the development of intelligence in apes and the onset of a war for supremacy." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.244.72.171 (talk) 13:15, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

This is not an alternate prequel, but a reboot like Batman Begins. If successful it will eventually lead to a modern take on Planet of the Apes, just like Batman Begins eventually led to a sequel called The Dark Knight which featured the Joker. Director Rubert Wyatt comments on this here: “This is part of the mythology and it should be seen as that. It’s not a continuation of the other films; it’s an original story. It does satisfy the people who enjoy those films. The point of this film is to achieve that and to bring that fan base into this film exactly like ‘Batman [Begins].'" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.64.148.168 (talk) 07:23, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Here's the link, for those that continue to call this a prequel:"Collider Visits The Set of RISE OF THE PLANET OF THE APES; Plus Video Blog". Collider.com. Lussier, Germain. (April 14, 2011). Retrieved 2011-06-13. This is a reboot. Gothicfilm (talk) 12:07, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Although Rupert Wyatt compared Rise of the Planet of the Apes to Batman Begins back in April, it seems that plans have changed: the film is now a prequel. In a new interview which was posted just yesterday, Wyatt talks about the possibility of making sequels to his film, and he says 'We want to grow and evolve, in the films that will come after this, to the 1968 original'. Unless I'm missing something here, the filmmakers have rethought their approach and now want their 'reboot' to be regarded as part of the same continuity. It appears that the 'diverging timelines' theory postulated above is correct. Flax5 (talk) 19:38, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

That one sentence, casually thrown out at the end - or just before this recording is cut off - does not override everything else that shows this film is not in the original's continuity. You'd have to have one very large distortion of a diverging timeline to see the events of the 2011 film leading to the 1968 one. Especially given what happens in its four sequels. And on a minor note, the very fact they put in the same quotes in different characters mouths, and used the same names for different characters, means this is a different storyline. You don't see those type of "homages" in a film that's supposed to be in the same continuity, for good reason. It would be impossible to take seriously. They did do a bit of that in Burton's 2001 remake - but that is also clearly not in the original's continuity. Gothicfilm (talk) 01:42, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

The film could work as both a prequel and a reboot. Most likely it will turn out to be a reboot after the sequels are released. I think it's pretty clear that when they were writing the screenplay they left it open to both interpretations, just in case they did not make any sequels. This could very well serve as a prequel to the first two POTA movies had Cornelius, Milo and Zira not gone back in time to 1973 and altered the timeline (as evidenced in "Battle For the Planet of the Apes"). This is the original timeline. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.114.93.28 (talk) 18:22, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

It's not a question of what it could work as. The original five films exist together as a series. If some people want to call "Rise" a prequel for their own purposes, that fine, but it's not encyclopedic. "Rise" is officially a series reboot, and that is how it should be listed in reference guides and WP. Gothicfilm (talk) 03:26, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

I think it's worth mentioning that it was originally marketed as a prequel and could work both ways since it doesn't contradict anything significant in the plots of the original two films. The way the article reads right now it's as if it's set in stone that it's absolutely a reboot and was always intended as such. This is not honest, nor is it encyclopedic. I think this film falls more closely into category of X-Men: First Class rather than Batman Begins. It's a film that could act both as a reboot and a prequel depending on where they choose to go with the sequels.

We don't list secondary categories a film might be considered under in the lead, especially when it's contradicted by the last three films in the original series. The lead also doesn't go into whether or not a film was "always intended as such." It just describes the work as it was at the time of its release. Gothicfilm (talk) 23:34, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Rise can be seen as a prequel to the 1968 PotA, explaining where that world came from. Doesn't matter that it doesn't fit with the other movies made in the 70s. Conversely, if there are sequels to Rise, they could be inconsistent with PoTA. That also wouldn't affect the clear relationship between PotA and Rise. It's also not terribly important whether the studio describes it as such, or as a reboot. They'll it use whatever buzzwords they think will sell the film. Forget the press releases, the name of the film Rise of The Planet of the Apes is an explicit statement that it is a prequel to PotA. Feel free to call it a "reboot" (of the series), that doesn't prevent it also being a prequel. Barsoomian (talk) 19:23, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

We don't list secondary categories a film might be considered under in the lead. It is indisputably a reboot. A prequel would be in the POTA films continuity, but as said in the Rise article's lead it's not part of the original Planet of the Apes series. Its premise is similar to the fourth film in the original series, Conquest of the Planet of the Apes, but it is not a direct remake (or prequel) in that it does not fit into that series' continuity, meaning that Conquest follows characters we saw in the previous film, and several of its characters continued into the next film. - Gothicfilm (talk) 19:39, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

It's a reboot of the series. It's a prequel to the film PotA. The title of the film declares that unambiguously. Barsoomian (talk) 04:15, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

That's your interpretation of the title. You earlier said you don't care that the studio called it a reboot. Who do you think gave the film that title? You also said They'll use whatever buzzwords they think will sell the film. Then the same thing goes for the title. - Gothicfilm (talk) 04:23, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

References

Title

Yeah I heard it was going to be called Planet of The Apes:Ceaser 217.41.240.15 (talk) 10:09, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I haven't found any valid source where the studio says this will be the name. If you have one, the page should probably be moved. --Muhandes (talk) 10:42, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I've seen conflicting reports on this. Some sites refer to it as "Rise of the Apes" while others have been calling it "Caesar". DigiFluid (talk) 06:34, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't think the question what sites say, but what the studio says. The only valid sources quoting the studios say "Rise of the Apes", as far as I could see. --Muhandes (talk) 18:55, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Some editor moved it back to "Caesar: Rise of the Apes". Please note: mojo, rotten tomatos, all movie, imdb. None of them has the name as "Caesar: Rise of the Apes". Also, no source was given for the studio using this name. Please don't change the name without sources. --Muhandes (talk) 18:09, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Movieweb.com

According to movieweb, it's called: "Caesar: Rise of the Apes".--163.150.137.101 (talk) 19:14, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

http://www.riseoftheplanetoftheapes.com/caesar.html has quite a lot of media now using that name, including some promotional material, but I'm still not sure this is more than a working title. I haven't checked if any of the promotional material is official. --Muhandes (talk) 06:13, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

I do not think we should move the article yet. I reviewed the Google search results for the past week, and there's still not outright confirmation of the title. I think we can hold off until it is officially confirmed. There's no rush; we'll find out in due time and can make one permanent move. Erik (talk | contribs) 13:45, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Icarus/Liberty 1

I added the following notation: "This ship was christened the Liberty 1 in a short film included with the Blu-ray release of the original Planet of the Apes film; the term Icarus was first coined by Apes fan Larry Evans in 1972, and was later used by Mr. Comics in the miniseries Revolution on the Planet of the Apes. The upcoming novel Conspiracy of the Planet of the Apes, by Drew Gaska, Christian Berntsen and Rich Handley, will use the Liberty 1 designation." Since the article mentions that the ship from the original film is called the Icarus, I felt it a good idea to elaborate on that a bit, given that the original film never called the ship Icarus, and since an official source--the short film from the Blu-ray release--actually called it Liberty 1. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.122.210.59 (talk) 02:13, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

CGI

I don't believe this is the first one to use CGI. I am reasonably certain that Tim Burton's "Planet of the Apes" also used CGI. Phil (talk) 17:25, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Millions?

Were is the source explaining that there are millions of apes in one facility? From the trailer it looks like there are a few hundred apes, but definetly not up to a million. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.125.212.195 (talk) 15:00, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

I'd like to know this too, saw the premier and at best its 200 apes or so. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.255.195.102 (talk) 19:10, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

The Alpha-Omega bomb?

There's one other thing that concerns me: the Alpha-Omega bomb. In Beneath the Planet of the Apes, Colonel Taylor activated the bomb that instantly destroyed the planet Earth. Will there ever be any mention of the doomsday weapon in Rise of the Planet of the Apes? AdamDeanHall (talk) 19:50, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

WP is not a forum for discussing plot points, etc. You'll have to see the movie to find out. - BilCat (talk) 20:00, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Plot

In the movie, Caesar isn't the first test subject, but rather the offspring of the first test subject. The drug (ALZ-112) actually isn't ever used on him directly. 98.233.32.3 (talk) 16:49, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 69.116.67.77, 6 August 2011

Another scene which is trying to establish a homage to the original is after Tom Felton scares all of the chimps and yells out "It's a Madhouse!" This is the same words uttered when Charlton Heston is being hosed down in the original 1968 version.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.116.67.77 (talk • contribs) 12:44, 6 August 2011

Not done. You need to cite a reliable source. - SummerPhD (talk) 13:36, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Also... wasn't the chimp whom was experimented with the 113, killed Jacobs, and fought Will at the end was named Cornelius?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.211.59.58 (talk • contribs) 18:36, 8 August 2011

Not done. You need to cite a reliable source. - SummerPhD (talk) 01:06, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

If they're citing the film itself, how's that not a reliable source? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.201.144.231 (talk) 03:50, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Superkid913, 6 August 2011

Please change a minor variety of things, starting with the name of the dominant ape. While he is the Alpha-Male of the primate facility, his name is Rocket, not Alpha. In addition, do not begin the brief description of Tom Felton's character, Dodge Landon with "and". If I may make a suggestion, perhaps state "The apes are held in the facility by the cruel guard, Dodge Landon Tom Felton, son of John Landon." One minor factor I discovered in my own contribution to the article is it sounds awkward to say "Will will be safe...". Perhaps "Will shall be safe..."?

Article is not "Overly-detailed" as wikipedia deems it to be. Please take these changes into heavy consideration. Thank you for your great contribution to this article

Superkid913 (talk) 17:52, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Unless I am missing something in the article it appears as if all of these have been taken care of by someone. Jnorton7558 (talk) 06:43, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Citations for use

http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/08/05/aping-reality-behind-the-scenes-of-rise-of-the-planet-of-the-apes/ Wildroot (talk) 05:01, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Apes' names are missing

I tried to edit the plot summary to include the names of the specific apes (the gorilla was named Buck, the chimp that killed Jacobs is Koba, the former dominant chimp in the sanctuary was Rocket and the Orangutan was Maurice). Also I specified the name of Jacob's company, GenSys. All of this is shown in the movie and in the credits. Hope this is permissible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.47.217.24 (talk) 23:28, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Yes, there is a gorilla named Buck in the film, and yes several other of the apes have names too. That doesn't mean that there's any good reason to put their names in the plot section; we don't mention every detail of a film, only the main points. The only ape that plays a key role in the film's plot is Caesar; Koba and the others are comparatively minor characters, and no useful purpose is served by mentioning their names. There's even less point to mentioning that Caesar's mother is named (nicknamed, actually, as it's not really her name) "Bright Eyes." People are putting that in simply because it happens to be what the main character in the original Planet of the Apes film is named by the apes. It's exactly the kind of thing that should be kept out of a plot summary. Polisher of Cobwebs (talk) 07:56, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Box Office

The amounts mentioned in the two box office areas on this page (the infobox and the section) don't match up. When one is updated, the other one really should be, too. Alphius (talk) 04:05, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Plot changes

This article is continuing to see instability in the plot section. The latest round of editing has added many minor details, as usual, and at the same time removed a key point - the spread of a pandemic among humans at the end of the film! There was no reason to remove that, and it needs to be restored, just as most of the things that have been added should be cut out, including the irrelevance that Caesar's mother is nicknamed "Bright Eyes" and the fact that there's an ape called Koba. Some of the other changes to the plot section look OK, but I am definitely getting rid of most of them. Polisher of Cobwebs (talk) 08:01, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi, Polisher. I don't agree that the opening scene is irrelevant. Here is the sentence you removed: "A group of chimpanzees are caught in the forest, put into cages, and sent to a pharmaceutical laboratory in America." Here we see the way the apes are cruelly caught from their home, and that's an essential point to understand the meaning of their rebellion. They would simply get their home back at that forest near San Francisco. (Caesar telling Will "I'm at home.")

Another sentence you removed: "He soon learns to communicate with Will by using the sign language." I think this point gives a fine realistic air to the story, since actually a number of real apes can use the sign language. [See for instance, http://www.koko.org/foundation/]. The higher intelligence of Caesar is not simply due to the drug.

I wish to know your opinion. --Xabadiar (talk) 18:36, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

It isn't crucial. The movie's plot is mainly about Caesar, and he was born in captivity, so we don't need the details about the opening scene. Polisher of Cobwebs (talk) 01:06, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. By the way, it seems a chimpanzee called Washoe (dead in 2007) was the first non-human to learn to communicate using American Sign Language, as part of a research experiment on animal language acquisition.--Xabadiar (talk) 13:41, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Rocket Lauch

There is a short shot of a newscaster announcing a rocket launch--was this supposed to be the rocket from the original movie? If it is it might bear mentioning in the plot summary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.19.74.3 (talk) 04:24, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

It is a rocket named Icarus 1. Icarus has been the unofficial name of Liberty 1 from the 1968 film. It has been said on this film's Twitter page that they hope to eventually bring the film series 2,000 years into the future. Such a film would follow a storyline similar to that of the first film. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.6.130.247 (talk) 01:55, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

Not to mention that the Icarus is first mentioned entering orbit around Mars, and then next mentioned on the headline of the newspapers being delivered the morning of the ape rebellion that states, "Lost in Space?" The implication seems rather clear and should be mentioned as plot points. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.38.21.211 (talk) 05:31, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

Homages to the original film

There were many homages to the original movies:

Jacobs, James Franco's boss: Arthur P. Jacobs, producer of all of the movies in the original franchise.

Bright Eyes, Caesar's mother, who was killed in the beginning: That's what Charlton Heston was called in the original "Planet of the Apes"

Franklin, James Franco's assistant: Franklin J. Schaffner, director of the original "Planet of the Apes"

Dodge Landon, son of the owner of the sanctuary Caesar is taken to: Dodge is one of Charlton Heston's fellow astronauts in the original "Planet of the Apes"

"Get your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape.", said by Dodge when Caesar grabs him thorugh the cage: Which is the classic line said by Charlton Heston in the original "Planet of the Apes", though, in the 2001 remake, Attar says "Take your stinking hands off me, you damn dirty human!".

Cornelia, one of the female chimpanzees: Cornelius, played by Roddy McDowell, is from the original "Planet of the Apes". 68.199.113.223 (talk) 00:31, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

A few more...

Dodge and Landon were the names of the two other astronauts that arrived with Charlton Heston's character in the original movie.

There's the line Tom Felton (as Dodge Landon) says "It's a mad house!" which was a line in the original movie by Charlton Heston's character.

During the scene where John Lithgow (as Charles Rodman) causes the car accident, Ceasar is upstairs in his room working on a Statue of Liberty puzzle. The Statue of Liberty played a big part in the original movie.

Elnauron (talk) 20:19, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

These don't belong in the article unless there's a source for them. Do you have one? Polisher of Cobwebs (talk) 01:04, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Sourced or not I don't believe we should list every single "reference" to another film in this article. IMDb covers this I'm sure or will. Covering this encyclopedically, with commentary via reliable sources would be preferred. But definitely not a bullet list presentation of trivia. —Mike Allen 07:23, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Source for homages

Here is an August 11, 2011 article from the Los Angeles Times which lists the various homages in the film: http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2011/08/11/rise-of-the-planet-of-the-apes-21-nods-to-classic-apes/

It might be better to list this as an "External link" than to load down the Wikipedia article with the exact same information. Mtminchi08 (talk) 17:17, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

This idea of Mtminchi08's has my "vote". At most, we could mention that there ARE homages and link to the article as a source (maybe in production since that would fall under writing sort of? not sure) but we don't need to go into the detail that keeps getting added. It's essentially fancruft unless sources start talking about the homages in a more significant way than just noting them. Millahnna (talk) 15:47, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Removal of casting trivia

I removed information about the dates certain cast members were announced and the fact that twitter was used to make the announcement in one case. Does anyone think this information is encyclopedic? (If it is relevant in some larger way to the production process, I'd suggest incorporating it into the "Production" section.) Nizamarain 14:47, 27 August 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nizamarain (talk • contribs)

No, it's not encyclopaedic and is a scourge of Wikipedia. No one cares when these things are announced/'revealed'/confirmed, or how they were announced/'revealed'/confirmed. They care when/how/where they happen. Yet you find examples of it in practically every article concerning the arts. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 14:54, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Inspired by Che Guevara?

According to Humberto Fontova — quoting Rupert Wyatt (Caesar is “a rebel, a fighter, a simian Che Guevara”), Andy Serkis (“I play the character from a child through to a Che Guevara type — How cool is that!”), and the AP film review — the Rise of the Planet of Apes hero was inspired by El Che. Asteriks (talk) 22:35, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Not a remake?

I think someone here is trying to create his own truth by pushing overly narrow definition of words. In any case, why even discuss it in the lead? --91.10.31.157 (talk) 12:08, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Well, I know someone keeps on saying that the film is not part of the original series' continuity. I keep on changing it, as it has no reference AND in the third reference, it specifically says "Rise is a prequel". Whoever keeps on putting that in, give a source and it will be valid. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.138.148.222 (talk) 03:43, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Plot length

This plot summary is totally out of control. Someone with experience and knowledge of the subject matter should cut it at least by half... -- Imladros (talk) 23:14, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Something's just not right here....

An IP has been adding detail to the plot, which of course, goes against WP:FILMPLOT's recommendation of 400 and 700 words. Rather than getting involved in an edit war, I am discussing this here to see if others can voice their opinions about this matter. Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 02:10, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Improvements deleted without good cause.

After watching the film I looked up the Wiki article and was surprised at how inacurate and incomplete the last paragraph of the Plot summary was, especially the description of the all important post-credits scene. I made substantive improvements - including removing two errors - and I also put this important scene in context. Yet all my changes were inexplicably removed.

For the record the clear errors were that there was no sneeze... blood was shown dripping out of the pilot's nose onto the floor. Worse, the original statement "...zooming in on New York implying the spread of a global pandemic" contains TWO errors. First, the zoom was into the board in general. The fact that "New York" was near the center of the board had no significance. Second, if the movie had ended with the zoom in, it would be hard to be SURE about a pandemic. Clearly the director thought a smuch as he added the entire chilling flightpath sequence I outlined, which IS what implies the pandemic - putting the final nail in the coffin of humanity. RobP (talk) 03:00, 26 April 2013 (UTC)rp2006

I don't know about the other stuff, but your detailed description of the ending credits does absolutely not belong into a Wikipedia film plot summary, and will most certainly be deleted soon. A sentence like "the credits show the virus spreading across the globe" is entirely enough for our purposes. -- Imladros (talk) 14:14, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

If the level of detail I provided is too much it certainly can be trimmed - in fact I will do so now. But a simple reversal of the edit back to original incorrect statements should not be done. Who is the arbiter of what is too much detail by the way? RobP (talk) 21:37, 26 April 2013 (UTC)rp2006

For the record, the changes were reverted because they were in violation of WP:FILMPLOT guideline that plot summeries be between 400 and 700 words. The revisions in question brought the summary up to almost 1,000 words. Recent revisions have brought the word count to 800 words, so it still needs to be cut down. SonOfThornhill (talk) 13:57, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

OK, I made it ALL more accurate AND concise by removing less important plot points. Now at 622 words. RobP (talk) 01:11, 29 April 2013 (UTC)Rp2006

Significance of Apes' names

The section about the apes' names makes claims that each name was a homage to a specific person: this reads like it was lifted from a single source, but no source is mentioned. In light of this, I've tagged each claim as unsourced ~dom Kaos~ (talk) 16:38, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

"Cetpot01" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Cetpot01. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 19:57, 12 August 2019 (UTC)