Talk:Ringette

Illegible reference

Can anyone provide a better copy of the following reference? It is an early rulebook and is used in multiple places (currently ref #8) but the linked source is an illegible scan. I cannot verify any of the claims sourced to this reference. Meters (talk) 21:59, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

References

No luck so far, have been trying, but it's been a frustrating search. Hopefully I can help in some way. There used to be a far better and legible scanned copy online which I saw at random once, but that was quite a while ago and I can't find it anymore. The website was dead then and one of those old, "Angelfire" types of sites, the early web, so unfortunately it's probably long gone. I'll never remember the site address otherwise I would have checked the Wayback Machine or the like. The uploader was a ringette coach in Ontario, Canada, and he had written that he had expressed permission from Ringette Canada to publish it online, so Canada's national governing body probably owns the rights. I did read his legible scanned copy at the time, but so far the current citation in the wiki article links to the only published copy that I can find online today. The website linked is "Ringette Alberta", a province-based ringette organization in Canada, so that provincial body most likely has permission from its NGB to have it up there. CheckersBoard (talk) 07:52, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

It's not great quality, but I can read it (there are some typos or typewriter double-strikes). If the page is not displaying properly on your browser, the individual scans are at history.ringettecalgary.ca/wp-content/uploads/rulebook.gif, history.ringettecalgary.ca/wp-content/uploads/rulebook2.gif, history.ringettecalgary.ca/wp-content/uploads/rulebook3.gif, history.ringettecalgary.ca/wp-content/uploads/rulebook4.gif and history.ringettecalgary.ca/wp-content/uploads/rulebook5.gif. It might be better to use these as the references so that they can be archived. – Reidgreg (talk) 13:48, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

I've located the above links at the Internet Archive/Wayback Machine website and included them in the article for reference. Until recently I only thought linkrot was a main concern, but as it turns out, webpages can still be "rebuilt", wiping out previous info, so now I'm trying to be a bit more cautious. CheckersBoard (talk) 09:19, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

Origin of sport's name

Just adding this here because I was going through the edit history to see if I could retrieve sources which had been removed and I found an entry which stated the following: "The first time the name "ringette" is mentioned was at the Northern Ontario Recreation Directors Association (NORDA) meetings held on January 20 and 21, 1963 in Sudbury, Ontario". Unfortunately this claim was not sourced but it could be important enough to leave it on the talk page as it may prove useful in some other way in the future. However it might be better placed in a wiki article on the history of the sport if someone ever intends to create one. CheckersBoard (talk) 20:10, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

History additions need sources! A maybe a separate page entirely.

Recent attempts to restore a detailed history of the sport which were once included in the wiki ringette article are unfortunately unsourced so it can't be included. It's been difficult to tell when it was first added or where it came from, it could have been present for years. However, I can't find the information online anywhere which is where I do a primary search. As a result, I haven't been able to find sources either. But, it seems it could be valuable, as I've said once before, IF, someone manages to create a new article about the sport's history (and sources this content), such as the one created for Canadian women's hockey: Canadian women's ice hockey history. In the meantime, in case it completely disappears into the internet abyss, I've archived the recent edit history page because it could be useful if it ever can be sourced, even though this content can't be included in its current form in wikipedia: [1].

Surprised to find how hard it is to find sources on this sport sometimes considering it's been around since the 1960s. CheckersBoard (talk) 09:13, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

• Collins, Kenneth Stewart (2004). The Ring Starts Here: An Illustrated History of Ringette.
• Hall, Margaret Ann (2016). The Girl and the Game: A History of Women's Sport in Canada. University of Toronto Press.
• Hall, Margaret Ann; Pfister, Gertrud. Honoring the Legacy: Fifty Years of the International Association of Physical Education and Sport for Girls and Women.
• Hall, Margaret Ann (2008). Immodest and Sensational: 150 Years of Canadian Women in Sports.

Collins is used as a source for one sentence in the article, one would hope it could be used to support more than that. A couple of the Hall books can be partially previewed at Google Books. [2] [3] but difficult to glean much. Reidgreg (talk) 14:49, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks Reidgreg! : ) Unfortunately I noticed the only source listed dedicated specifically to this particular sport is out of print: Collins, Kenneth Stewart (2004). The Ring Starts Here: An Illustrated History of Ringette. I can't find any scanned copies uploaded online either. For other editors, I can't locate a single book on ringette anywhere, so far this is the only one. CheckersBoard (talk) 20:44, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi Reidgreg, just thought I'd mention I just decided to add a "Further reading" section and added these sources :) Can't thank you enough btw! Understandably only Collins work really fits the bill here, but until there are more authors with a vested interest in this subject, unfortunately it looks like Collins' book will be the only real go to source for a good time to come, but at least it's a start. Thanks again! CheckersBoard (talk) 10:38, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

Sam Jacks and "Red" McCarthy, ringette's origins - it is already sourced!

I've done my research and work for this article because I wanted to get it right. It is sourced despite the fact that information is hard to come by. There appears to be only one book ever written on the sport's history and it is out of print.

The article, which I have contributed to, gives credit to both men, Sam Jacks and Mirl Arthur "Red" McCarthy, who have both been credited by Canada's national governing body, Ringette Canada, as "Founders". This can be found in the Ringette Canada Hall of Fame on their website. The sport was invented in Canada in the province of Ontario. This information is sourced. In the article's lead it is clear these two men were key players but played different roles, and this can be found in the referenced material which has been included. However, for some reason this information keeps being removed for unwarranted reasons. I'm starting to wonder if someone is trolling.

The Ontario province: While both Canadian men are considered founders, McCarthy is credited as the sport's co-inventor, while Jacks is credited as the sport's inventor/idea man. 1963 is marked as the starting year. Jacks was also the founder and President of the SDMRO (Society of Director of Municipal Recreation of Ontario). In 1963, Jacks was SDMRO President. Jacks was also the first director of recreation of North Bay (same province) which he became in 1948, and also held this position in 1963. McCarthy was the director of recreation for the Ontario town of Espanola during that time and the town's local arena manager. After the sport was created, Jacks wanted credit to go to the Northern Ontario Director's Association (NORDA) for the creation of the sport, but this information, while initially included in the article last year (and had been added by a different editor) has since been removed as some point, probably because it wasn't sourced. Note: NORDA doesn't appear anywhere in the Ringette Canada Hall of Fame for some reason.

In addition, neither man has been inducted into the Ontario Sports Hall of Fame, which was the province where they both lived and worked, I just checked their website yesterday. CheckersBoard (talk) 04:59, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

Having looked over sources during my copyedit, I can confirm that Jacks and McCarthy are credited as co-founders: Jacks for coming up with the idea (based on his earlier work in floor hockey) and using his position to promote it, and McCarthy for organizing the first games and developing the first rules. Similarly, North Bay and Espanola share the claim as the 'birthplace of ringette'. – Reidgreg (talk) 12:31, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks I appreciate it, was trying to make this clear. Ringette Canada's hall of fame lists both as "founders": McCarthy was inducted in 1988 as a Founder [4] and Jacks was also inducted as a Founder that same year [5] , so I'm going with that. I guess I should add this to references. CheckersBoard (talk) 22:52, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

Lol, based on the last revert, looks like Fram and GECollins could be the same person CheckersBoard (talk) 09:03, 26 September 2022 (UTC)