Talk:Richard von Coudenhove-Kalergi/Archive 1

Archive 1

Quotations?

Can anyone verify the quotations from Praktischer Idealismus? Larvatus 23:44, 19 July 2007 (UTC)larvatus

Ok, here is:

Der Mensch der fernen Zukunft wird Mischling sein. Die heutigen Rassen und Kasten werden der zunehmenden Überwindung von Raum, Zeit und Vorurteil zum Opfer fallen. Die eurasisch-negroide Zukunftsrasse, äußerlich der altägyptischen ähnlich, wird die Vielfalt der Völker durch eine Vielfalt der Persönlichkeiten ersetzen.

Statt das Judentum zu vernichten, hat es Europa wider Willen durch jenen künstlichen Ausleseprozeß veredelt und zu einer Führernation der Zukunft erzogen. Kein Wunder also, daß dieses Volk, dem Ghetto-Kerker entsprungen, sich zu einem geistigen Adel Europas entwickelt. So hat eine gütige Vorsehung Europa in dem Augenblick, als der Feudaladel verfiel, durch die Judenemancipation eine neue Adelsrasse von Geistes Gnaden geschenkt.

I don't speak German so someone else may translate that. Uikku (talk) 18:59, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Those translated citations in the article were added by user Cyrruss. He has not edited anything after year 2007, so I don't know how we could know where or how he got the translation. Uikku (talk) 21:10, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

It is pure racism. C-K is talking positive about superior races and appreciates the creation of a new racial elite of Jews constituting some kind of "world nobility" dominating all other people. Sounds a little bit like Adolf Hitler, but the original statements of C-K seem to be older than the mid-20s when the emerging Nazi-movement created their propaganda... and of course all statements of C-K are the other way round. He appreciates a racial elite, but in his eyes this elite has to be dominated by "the Jewish race". Whatever this may be, as must European Jews in past centuries had been descendants of convertites... Sad... --178.5.44.227 (talk) 20:55, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

References

No popular movement

According to my British civilisation teacher, there was no popular movement, but rather the idea of a European union developed within intellectual and some political circles. I didn't take the time to check it on the Internet though. --Taupe 14:49, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

This racial project, the so-called "Pan-European-Movement", was implementetd by a relatively small elite and therefore by no means a mass movement, but rather a project of a very limited number of people... The book with the original racial theories of C-K can by found here, original text in German using Austrian expressions and grammar: https://archive.org/stream/Coudenhove-Kalergi-Praktischer-Idealismus/Coudenhove-kalergiRichard-PraktischerIdealismus-Adel-Technik-Pazifismus1925191S._djvu.txt --21:14, 5 April 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.5.44.227 (talk)

An important nuance

Rather:

"Every day America will leave Europe farther behind unless its statesmen at least can rouse themselves to set by the side of the Fifth Pan-American Conference the First Pan-European Conference." From the book Pan-Europe (1926) was sent out to the whole world p. 82 http://hdl.handle.net/2027/mdp.39015004075605

In 1926 Europe is a cluster of petty states in disunion. America and Europe went into business union for 3 years showing ideal. His book Coudenhove-Kalgeri had sent to those in power to show face in Vienna. But not with politicians and statesmen in charge, but them, the Plutocrats: “In republican and monarchical democracies statesmen are marionettes, the mastermind behind are capitalists: they dictate the rules of politics, they speak through the purchase of public opinion, voters, business and social relationships to Ministers. …. The plutocracy of today is more powerful than the aristocracy of yesterday because no one is above it, only the state, an accompliance, the tool of the plutocrats.” Plutokratie, Coudenhove-Kalgeri, (1925). The Plutocrats should take power legitimate showing ideal instead of remain in hiding. He wanted a world social Aristocracy.

These 1926-29 were the best of times and they were not about war, they were businesses and looking out in the whole world for more business. According to Coca-Cola history Mr. Woodruff committed the Company in 1926 to organized international expansion by establishing the Foreign Department.

After Stock market crash 1929 polls said to Roosevelt in America and Hitler in Germany businesses must be planned by the state!

The next union of American and European business was of states during the Cold war. In the first union of 1926-29 MNCs were the main actors. This difference is not emphazised today. The Western world with big MNCs legitimate in power lasted 3 years until this guy Freud's American nephew Edward Bernays (the inventor of PR) whose business of manipulation with no ideal was in danger, when the others was showing ideal:

        “..so, I decided if you can use Propaganda for war, you can certainly use it for peace” The Century of the Self (min. 11:05) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFXLLopp8jc&feature=related 

Bernays decided to manipulate the common man, men in psychoanalysis like to win, so he said they should borrow money and buy stock from his clients (banks) because the market with the new world order of free business would only go up! Please leave a comment

Wiki signature is Glaargaard

Please — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.82.144.216 (talk) 09:11, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

External Link

Does not work. Coolguy1368 12:02, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 21:36, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Wrong Count

There's a section in the current article that lists Richard Nikolaus as writing Das Wesen des Antisemitismus. Since Richard Nikolaus was born in 1894, it's unlikely he published the book in 1901. According to Archive.org, the person who wrote that book is actually "Coudenhove-Kalergi, Heinrich Johann Maria, Graf von, 1859-1906". I don't know how much of the article needs to be changed as a result of this information, so I mention it here. --UnneededAplomb (talk) 10:35, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

This has to be changed now. A wikipedia biography can not have such failure as stating someone wrote a book being 7 years old, as stated above, it has to be revised as soon as possible. If there is such obvious mistake, who can trust the rest of the information? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.16.8.7 (talk) 11:16, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Otto v. Habsburg

For what it's worth, the article says that he founded the PEU in 1922 with Otto v. Habsburg. Dr Habsburg was 10 years old in 1922. I seriously doubt that he was founding political movements at that point! This from personal knowledge, since I knew Dr Habsburg.JovanW 04:58, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Bad use of English

Some of the English in this article is almost incomprehensible. Take the first paragraph of "Death": "On a masonic yearbook [this should presumably read "According to a masonic yearbook" - "on a book" can only mean physically on top of it] he died in a stroke [in English you die "of" a disease or a heart attack, but "in" a car crash or a cholera epidemic]. But his secretary wrote about his suicide [this can only mean "But in fact he committed suicide, and his secretary wrote about it" - which is clearly not the intention]. On her memoir [should read "In her memoirs"] his death was hidden [no, "concealed" - "hidden" means physically hidden, like a window by a curtain - but "Her memoirs did not mention his death" would be better English, if that's what the writer actually means] not to make people disappointed ["not to make people disappointed" should read "so as not to disappoint people" - but "disappoint" isn't really the right word - this is almost baby talk] because he was the great dedicator to ["the great dedicator to" is completely un-English - for one thing, the word "dedicator" hardly exists, and "dedicator to" is meaningless - whom or what did he dedicate, and what to? In fact he himself was dedicated to European integration - whoever wrote this has no idea how to use English verbs] European integration. ... He was on the top of [what, physically on (the) top of it? no, "he led / headed / was president of the Pan-European Union"] the Pan-European Union until his death. The presidency was succeeded [people are succeeded, not things, so "He was succeeded as leader / as president / in the presidency", or else "Otto von Habsburg succeeded him as...."] by Otto von Habsburg." In other places the words "the" and "a" are omitted, suggesting that the writer is a native speaker of, say, Japanese or Czech who is unfamiliar with these basic features of English. This is so dreadful it looks like someone used Babelfish or Google Translate. But in other places, especially at the beginning, the English looks perfectly reasonable. Has the article been patched together by different people?213.127.210.95 (talk) 14:56, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I quite agree [different contributor from above]. I gave up reading the article after five minutes spent trying to understand this: "At the same university Professor Ludwig von Mises studied currency problems for Coudenhove-Kalergi's movement." - the problem being that little word "for". It's impossible to know what the relationship of these "currency problems" is to the Kalergi movement, since "for" is far too broad a preposition. An exasperating article.

Ode to Joy

The statement that he "proposed Beethoven's "Ode to Joy" as the Anthem of Europe in 1929, which he later proposed in 1955" must be wrong. He either first proposed it in 1929 or 1955, it cannot have been both.Royalcourtier (talk) 05:08, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Kalergi Plan

Should there not be some mention - even if only to debunk - the current popular assertion that there is a 'Kalergi Plan' designed to replace the current European population with mixed individuals who are, allegedly, easier to control due to their not having 'roots'?

I can see where people come from, though - it does seem as if he was advocating this - however there seems to be no viable information of this "plan" if one were to exist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.4.228.5 (talk) 23:38, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

As far as I have understood, Praktischer Idealismus is the Kalergi Plan. However it was written in German language, so I cannot say much about it, but I have seen some translated excerpts. ––Uikku (talk) 09:57, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

We must also be careful of what some call "progressive ideologues" trying to say that what they believe is 100% true and what someone they disagree with is "not true" and then leaving it at that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.4.228.5 (talk) 23:43, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

That is precisely what the Kalergi Plan is. EyePhoenix (talk) 07:39, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

It shouldn't be even mentioned because it's bullshit and giving it any attention, even to debunk it, is too much given. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:143:C501:CE20:1116:E31B:5AAA:5DF3 (talk) 23:17, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

LOL @ the above user. How can you say the Kalergi Plan is bullshit when it's exactly what's happening in Europe right now? Subject Matter Expert Supreme (talk) 10:14, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

Umm...because....if by "Kalergi Plan" you mean multiculturalism and race-mixing...uhm...it is happening EVERYWHERE and not just in Europe? And was happening even before Kalergi was born? How about that. The idea that he invented it, made it official policy, or any such claptrap is why people laugh at you folks believing in this "Plan". Multiculturalism and race-mixing date back to Classical Antiquity. Kalergi merely theorized increasing miscegenation will lead to the disappearance of individual races in the future, and that he is fine with it. No more, no less. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.110.99.64 (talk) 21:13, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

So, the quotation from Praktischer Idealismus that conspiracy theorists cite goes something like this, "The man of the future will be of mixed race. The races and classes of today will gradually disappear due to the elimination of space, time, and prejudice. The Eurasian-negroid race of the future, similar in appearance to the Ancient Egyptians, will replace the current diversity of peoples and the diversity of individuals." Does anyone have an English translation of Praktischer Idealismus that can be used to verify or debunk this? ––Drbogatyr — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drbogatyr (talk • contribs) 19:08, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

Make sure when you do to read it carefully in its entirety, so that you know it's a plan, not a prediction. The way it has been quoted it could be either. Britmax (talk) 17:32, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

Sources

It says "... even though he was not Jewish" and a reference to source no. 37. I checked the link from source no. 37 and there is no mention, that Kalergi was not Jewish. So, I removed the false claim.

https://gedenkbuch.univie.ac.at/index.php?id=435&no_cache=1&L=2&no_cache=1&person_single_id=40097&person_name=&person_geburtstag_tag=not_selected&person_geburtstag_monat=not_selected&person_geburtstag_jahr=not_selected&person_fakultaet=not_selected&person_kategorie=&person_volltextsuche=&search_person_x=1&result_page=19 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.219.62.42 (talk) 17:05, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 April 2020

In the Publication section, the name of the book Pan Europa has a square bracket in the state of the ending "a", looking like "Europ]". Neauoire (talk) 10:37, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

 Done Jamietw (talk) 10:45, 18 April 2020 (UTC)