Talk:Richard of Chichester

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Quibbles about the "Prayer"

According to the article as it currently stands, "Saint Richard is best remembered today for the popular prayer ascribed to him as his last words on his deathbed where, surrounded by the clergy of his diocese, he prayed:

   Thanks be to Thee, my Lord Jesus Christ
   For all the benefits Thou hast given me,
   For all the pains and insults Thou hast borne for me.
   O most merciful Redeemer, friend and brother,
   May I know Thee more clearly,
   Love Thee more dearly,
   Follow Thee more nearly,
   Day by day.

This prayer was adapted for the song "Day by Day" in the musical Godspell."

There are several problems here. The two that exercise me are:

In the 1200s nobody wrote English that was remotely as modern as this text, which is in a style no older than the 1700s, more likely the 1800s or even the early 1900s (in the archaizing usage of those who modeled their prayer language on 18th-century recensions of the 1611 Authorized ("King James") Version of the Bible). I have yet to see anything remotely plausible that purports to be Richard's actual words. It is not clear to me whether he would have been praying (orally, mind you, on his deathbed, albeit likely with an amanuensis at hand) in English, French or Latin. But whatever the language, it would not have been in these words.
The prayer was indeed used, in an abbreviated form, in Godspell, but the adaptation predated the musical by several decades at least. A text almost identical to that in Godspell is in the Hymnal 1940 of the Episcopal Church, hymn number 429, set to two different tunes. Both tunes are said to have been composed in 1941, and both settings are Copyright, 1943, by The Church Pension Fund, owner of the hymnal. From the entry in the Oremus Hymnal Wiki it appears that the text goes back at least to 1931, when it appeared in Songs of Praise, Enlarged Edition, set to a third tune.

--Haruo (talk) 08:06, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The "day by day" part is not part of the prayer (I will remove it). Otherwise, the prayer is widely attributed to Richard in Chichester — it is even inscribed on a statue there. --ubiquity (talk) 20:10, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The words of St Richards deathbed prayer was supposedly taken down by his confessor in Latin:

Gratias tibi ego, Domine Jesu Christe, de omnibus beneficiis, quae mihi praestitisti; pro poenis & opprobiis, quae pro me ertulisti; propter quae plactus ille lamentablis vere tibim competebat. Non est dolor sicut dolor meus.

An English translation that reflects the original slightly more is:

I give the thanks, O Lord Jesus for all the benefits thou hast bestowed on me, and for the pain and ignominy thou didst suffer for my sake, on account of which that sad complaint of the prophet, "There is no sorrow like unto My sorrow" did truly apply to Thee.

The section in bold echoes Lamentation 1:12. The version that we see today is because the early 20th century translators used a certain amount of artistic license in their interpretation Wilfridselsey (talk) 14:53, 7 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

February 7

The first line in the Notes section is "Day of Saint Richard, February 7". What does this mean? This date is not mentioned anywhere else in the text, and St. Richard's day is given as April 3 (Catholic) and June 16 (Anglican). --ubiquity (talk) 19:32, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Tapestry at the Shrine of St Richard

The modern shrine of Richard contains a tapestry designed by Ursula Benker-Schirmer, not John Piper as stated in this article 212.42.185.51 (talk) 12:17, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, you are right, I checked the official cathedral guide and it confirms that it was Ursula Benker-Schirmer, don't know how Piper snuck in! Wilfridselsey (talk) 16:38, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]