Talk:Richard Wright (footballer)

Height data

On checking the heights of Manchester City footballers against Premier League information I noticed that Richard Wright's height::

• is not cited.*
• Premier League gives his height as 1.88m, 2.5cm less than the height given.
• All other Wiikipedia Manchester City player profiles give the height in metres followed by feet and inches.

I propose to bring this profile into line with all the other Manchester City profiles and cite the information from Premier League.

Are there any comments or concerns? Michael Glass (talk) 12:51, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Man City's own website says he's 6' 3" like the article and google says that's 190.5 cm. http://www.mcfc.co.uk/Teams/First-team/Goalkeepers/Richard-Wright — Preceding unsigned comment added by Speccy4Eyes (talk • contribs) 19:09, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

As Manchester City gives one height in feet and inches and Premier League gives another height in metres, we have a choice to make.

• The height information is supposed to be sourced, so we either have to choose between Man City and Premier League, or we have to reject both measures because we cannot be sure what his height is.
• If we cite from Manchester City (and by implication reject the Premier League information), the player profile will be out of style with every other Manchester City player profile on Wikipedia unless we flip the display.
• If we cite from Premier League (and by implication reject the Manchester City information), the player profile will be consistent with the other Wikipedia player profiles for Manchester City but inconsistent with Manchester City.

This is a no win situation. We can use the Manchester City information or we can follow Premier League or we can reject both sources and leave the height data blank, perhaps with a note in the coding explaining why it is blank. If we follow Manchester City do we flip the display or not? Which course is best? Whatever we choose we will have to choose one course of action, because it is not right to have uncited information in an article. Michael Glass (talk) 13:05, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

With no clue which is right or if both are wrong, we need to put both. Everyone in England uses feet for height, so I prefer that too. Speccy4Eyes (talk) 19:57, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

OK. I'll leave it to you to fix this mess. Michael Glass (talk) 10:03, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Fair enough. Done. Speccy4Eyes (talk) 22:21, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

This is an improvement, but the layout is still out of step with every other Wikipedia profile for Manchester City. That's certainly not ideal. I think it would be better to make it consistent with the other profiles for this city. Michael Glass (talk) 12:20, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. And I've found the best way to make them all consistent too. You can do this 6 feet 6 inches (1.98 m). Speccy4Eyes (talk) 22:12, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

I've done more than half of them, but must leave it for now. Feel free to do some more like that if you get the chance, or I'll do more the next time I get online. Speccy4Eyes (talk) 22:29, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

@Speccy4Eyes: I suggest you dont continue and I have removed all your changes. Officially England uses meter (feet is for america) and all other teams and official premier league uses meter. You cant change an entire team just to have same as this player and these changes that effects a lot of articles should probably be discussed at talkpage of Wikipedia:WikiProject Football first. And we should never have or in infobox. I used PL instead for consistency. QED237 (talk) 22:42, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Speccy4Eyes' mass edits would appear to fall foul of this policy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:General_sanctions/Units_in_the_United_Kingdom

Michael Glass (talk) 11:08, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

I have been looking around some more and it seems like UK use both imperial and metric system (but I think I read somewhere metric system is official) anyway there is no reason to go around and change every other player, just to match one player. I would not go so far as those sanctions, as he edited in good faith, but the editing and changing of units should not continue (at least not without major discussions). QED237 (talk) 11:22, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't mean to cause trouble. I wont change the heights any more. I thought we agreed to make the Man City heights the same as for Richard Wright. I honestly didn't know they had to be all meters. I thought Wikipedia needed websites to confirm the heights too and Richard Wright has different heights on different websites so I thought it was wrong to choose one which might be wrong. So I put both. QED237 said England use meter which I disagree with. Most people I know use feet and inches for height in England. I looked at the websites for all the teams in the premier league and 11 use feet/inches - 3 use cm - 3 use meter - 3 dont give heights. Can we ask Wikipedia to allow feet/inches for premier league players to be consistent with use in England please.

Feet-inches teams are Villa, Burnley, Crystal Palace, Hull, Leicester, Man City, QPR, Southampton, Stoke, Swansea, WBA

cm teams are Chelsea, Newcastle, Sunderland

meter teams are Everton, Liverpool, Spurs

Arsenal, Man U and West Ham dont give heights

Speccy4Eyes (talk) 21:26, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Now that I have proved that English premier league teams mainly uses feet-inches for players height and as I have told you feet-inches is what most people here in England use can we change them all back now please? I can do it but only after I have been told I can. Thank you. I can leave Everton, Liverpool and Spurs with meters if you like. Speccy4Eyes (talk) 18:14, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

First of all cm and m are the same SI unit so that is 6 teams, Man city uses both so that is 7 teams with meter and I have not even checked the others. Secondly as we said the offcial league PL lists all players in meter. Thirdly this discussion and place as I said is way to small this has to go higher up the chain to form a consensus (that will probably never happen because people want it the way it is now). I know you can edit but doing so without widespread consensus will have you blocked. QED237 (talk) 22:51, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

OK ok I put the question on Wikipedia:WikiProject Football. Cm and meter are different like feet/inches are. 6' 1" is 185 cm but only 1.85 meter. Man City uses ft/in first like 10 other teams. Only 3 give meter first and only 3 give cm first. The PL lists are ignored by most teams and most fans prefer ft-in. It is different in France and Germany but not England. Speccy4Eyes (talk) 16:44, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Wow you dont get units it is obvious. cm (centimeter) and m (meter) is the exact same unit, only that centi is the same a "a hundred" or 0.01=10^(-2) which ever you prefer. It is just the same way million means 10^6=100,000 and kilo is 10^3=1000. 1km=10^3m=1000m=10000dm=100000cm it is all the same. QED237 (talk) 16:50, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

I'm not that thick I know all that. But its like saying inches and cm are the same because there are exactly 2,54 cm in an inch. Some people use ft-in and some cm and others meter. They are all 3 different ways of measuring the same thing I know. Speccy4Eyes (talk) 16:57, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

No it is exactly the same believe me I am a mathmatician for gods sake. 1 METER is the same as 100 centiMETER. Both is in metric system which is the question here, if we are using metric system or imperial units. QED237 (talk) 17:19, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

You may want to read Metric system and Metric prefix. c (centi) in cm is just a prefix and not a different way, both cm and m are metric system. QED237 (talk) 17:21, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

It is like saying feet and inches are two different ways of saying the same thing as 12 inches=1 feet (imperial) and 100cm=1m (metric) . QED237 (talk) 17:23, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

In metric, someone who is 162cm can also be said to me 1m 62cm in the same way imperial says 5ft 10in. QED237 (talk) 17:26, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Height in infobox

I propose switching Richard Wright's height in the infobox to feet and inches first:

• England uses feet and inches for height and Richard Wright is English.
• Wikipedia MOS guidelines for articles related to English people says to use feet and inches first.
• The PFA Footballers' Who's Who 2010-11 (the English football player bible) gives his height as 6' 2" with no meters on page 445.

Please indicate if you disagree with this change. Speccy4Eyes (talk) 22:58, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

I disagree, the official league and the source uses meter. QED237 (talk) 23:08, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

The Premier League does not represent the players though, why should the player's English status be changed because what they do? The official Footballers' Who's Who bible produced by the Professional Footballers' Association which does represent the players, uses only feet and inches. Why do you want to go against those? And also you want to ignore Wikipedia MOS guidelines which says use feet and inches first for English people? Speccy4Eyes (talk) 23:20, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Leave it as it is. No change is needed. Michael Glass (talk) 04:27, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Height units

We haven't seen any good reasons to defy WP:UNITS yet.

WP:UNITS says: "the primary units for personal height and weight are feet​/inches and stones/​pounds" and "For situations in which the units used as primary in the article differ from the units given in the source, the {{convert}} template's |order=flip flag can be used; this causes the original unit to be shown as secondary in the article, and the converted unit to be shown as primary".

The Premier League site does not reflect English usage. It is the only official English/Scottish/Welsh/NI football site that puts meters before feet and inches for height. Others like the FA, PFA, most of the clubs own sites and the Football league all give feet and inches first or feet and inches only. The PL site doesn't even give feet and inches which is bonkers for England and makes it totally unrepresentative and unsuitable. There is no reason at all to stick with it and definitely no reason to put meters first anyway.

For these reasons I see no reason to delay complying with WP:UNITS and putting feet and inches first. Can anyone give a valid reason to defy it? Speccy4Eyes (talk) 19:32, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Why is it such a big deal? The Rambling Man (talk) 19:40, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

I like things to be right. The rules say follow WP:UNITS and I see no reason not to. One editor seems to be trying to convert all English players to meters against the rules and preventing me fixing them. He even arranged for me to get a massive scary warning to stop me doing anything. I don't want sanctions but I want the players to have the right heights. Can you help me persude them please? Speccy4Eyes (talk) 19:56, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Well the heights will be "right" whether they're metric or Imperial, won't they? It's really a trivial matter which one comes first. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:59, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Its clearly not trivial, or why the sanctions thing and the BIG warning? If rules are worth writing then they are worth obeying. Would you dare go around all the USA games player articles and change all their heights to meters? Why not give the same respect to the English/Scots/Welsh/NI players? I'm trying to follow the rules, but those who wish to disobey them seem to be given the veto. Why is that? Can you help me now I've explained please? Speccy4Eyes (talk) 20:17, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Honestly, life's too short. If the height is correct, I couldn't care less whether it's in ft and inches or metres. It's utter trivial and expending so much energy on it doesn't benefit the encyclopedia one iota. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:20, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Has WP:UNITS been written to be ignored and with no benefit at all to the encyclopedia? Without it what shambles would we have? Is the intimidating warning on my page trivial? Are we going to let the bullies have their own way and destroy the Wikipedia community? Did you join this discussion just to make a fool of me or what? Speccy4Eyes (talk) 21:37, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Primary units

WP:UNITS requires that for UK related articles "the primary units for personal height and weight are feet​/inches and stones/​pounds". I propose to change this article to observe that requirement unless a good reason not follow the guideline can be given. Speccy4Eyes (talk) 17:02, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Disagree, see sections above. Qed237 (talk) 19:49, 28 June 2015 (UTC)