Talk:Richard Herring

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Catchphrases

Where are the listed sources for those supposed catchphrases ? There are none listed. I'm going to delete them.

Just listen to the podcast, watch his TV shows etc.

"Nyum Nyum Nyum", "Moon on a stick" "...Or is it the businessman in his suit and tie" "...Of course they're all *** by the time I've finished with them" "Fucking idiot(s)" "Bumming!" are all there to see and thus should be on the page.

As are "car", "shopping", "er..." etc. A catchphrase is not only something associated with the subject, but exists outside the particular fandom of the individual - people who are simply aware of the subject as "someone off the telly" should be aware of it, too. LessHeard vanU (talk) 21:17, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Surely the 'moon on a stick' stuff fits those criteria. I vaguely remember stuart Lee talking about how people have come up to him in the street shouting about how he wants the moon a stick. This may suggest the catchphrase at least caught on to some extent? --Philthemancunian (talk) 07:46, 27 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Surely 'moon on a stick' was a [Lee and Herring] catchphrase, so should be on their page if anywhere. 195.152.249.14 (talk) 13:05, 9 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Would his emergency questions from RHLSTP count as catchphrases, eg. "have you ever tried to suck your own cock?" Just a thought. Hwoodie99 (talk) 10:26, 2 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No. Ged UK 13:12, 2 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Andrew Collins edits this article

Careful note should be paid to Herring's page because Andrew Collins admitted on the Collings and Herrin podcast, that he regularly edits this article, and seems to see himself as some kind of unofficial guardian of it, removing stuff that he deems unfit.

Please sign...

Is this why there's an NPOV dispute? Andrew just said he's rmeoving people's idiotic additions like made up catch-phrases. I see no indication that there are NPOV issues, and I think the banner should be removed. --Gordon (talk) 19:00, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Surely any dispute over the neutrality of the article should be based on the actual information that appears on the page, not what people have said outside of it? I'm sure many pages have people who frequently check up on them and edit them, but that doesn't mean they have NPOV tags on them. The tag should be removed.80.229.225.16 (talk) 17:57, 23 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Andrew Collins takes information that IS unfit for the article I.E not true and removes it

I concur. Surely the NPOV issue should be raised based on the article itself, not any what has been said elsewhere. I think the banner should also be removed. --Philthemancunian (talk) 07:43, 27 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I was in a cafe the other day and I heard Stewart Lee saying he was going to vandalise this article. At least, I think it was him, he was certainly squinting a lot. Is there some way we can prevent this senseless feud from causing more damage? 86.149.134.148 (talk) 10:31, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'd just like to say that I was in a cafe on the date in question and I did say I was going to vandalise this article. However, by "this article" I meant an article of clothing, specifically a scarf I was holding in my hands which I was going to vandalise for an art project. Maybe if you had spent less time mocking me for my squinty eyes and more time looking at my hands, this whole confusing situation wouldn't have occurred. And I'm not Stewart Lee.

PS on the way out of the cafe I bumped into the real Stewart Lee and he said he definitely would not be vandalising the article as he strongly believes in the Wikipedia project and despises vandals. Then he pushed me into a muddy puddle so I don't really know what to think. 81.156.106.223 (talk) 07:07, 1 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

LOL the Andrew Collins page is locked for editing. I find that quite funny. 86.135.78.105 (talk) 20:48, 27 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi can we have a catchphrase section please? :) 86.147.246.173 (talk) 01:18, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Patrick Marber, the Ironic Nemesis

This somewhat ironic as his nemesis Patrick Marber is a big poker fan. --Magic Pickle

Magic Pickle, do you actually know the meaning of the word nemesis? Not getting at you, just curious. (We'll leave aside that controversial and now largely meaningless word ironic.) Flapdragon 01:29, 11 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Does it not mean an opponent who cannot be beaten? Herring describes on his web-site the diffculties him and Lee had with Marber, and on Fist of Fun whever Marber was mentioned it was with the description of "curmudgeon". In his diary he has a bit of a light-hearted moan about how Marber is now a highly regarded playwright when Lee and Herring didn't think that much of him. But I was using a bit of hyperbole, he isn't Herring's literal nemesis and yes, ironic is now difficult to pin down. If you're not happy with it, I don't mind seeing it go. For now I've added the description of Marber as a curmudgeon, as compromise. If Marber is being mentioned, I think it worth pointing out the mild difficulty Herring had with him. Magic Pickle 15:49, 19 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Not really. I'd say it's something like comeuppance or retribution, getting what was coming to you. Herring and Marber may not be friends, but there's nothing to sustain the classical analogy, which I suggest was be mystifying even to those who already knew the background it was trying to hint at. Your latest edit is better, I think, but see if you agree with my attempt to make it still clearer. Flapdragon 14:19, 20 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I am right in my definition, actually, but so are you. here is dictionary.com's definition of nemesis:

-A source of harm or ruin: Uncritical trust is my nemesis. -Retributive justice in its execution or outcome: To follow the proposed course of action is to invite nemesis. -An opponent that cannot be beaten or overcome. -One that inflicts retribution or vengeance. -Nemesis Greek Mythology. The goddess of retributive justice or vengeance. Magic Pickle 13:37, 22 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

PR rather than biography

This from the article, "He has been described, by the British Theatre Guide, as "one of the leading hidden masters of modern British comedy" reads like pure PR material. The article is all about Herring's successes and there is little or no background material about the man. Which school did he go to, what did his parents do for a living, where did he live as a child etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.187.233.172 (talk) 13:06, 25 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This is because this is not a biography, but a biographic encyclopedic article; that is, we only summarise what other reliable sources say about the subject - we do not find out "missing" facts and add them. If there are good references for other parts of the subjects life, then quote them and put the material into the article. Another matter is that the encyclopedia is primarily focussed on what makes the subject notable. While Herring's family, schooling, background is (or is not) important to him it is perhaps of only passing interest of people who are interested in the comedian and his work. The detailed background belongs in proper biographies, as does opinion or speculation. It is how (this) encyclopedia works. LessHeard vanU (talk) 18:49, 25 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Grammar

The last line of the first paragraph gives the impression that the Collings and Herrin podcast was a Collins led project, like the BBC 6 Music show, when it was actually a collaboration:

'initially on the radio series Banter, then on Collins' BBC 6 Music show and Collings and Herrin Podcast.'

The suggested fix for this (inserting "the" before Collings and Herrin Podcast, preferably in a manner that indicates the order of the projects, ie. "most recently the") was repeatedly rejected recently, with no alternative fix proposed. Would somebody with editing privileges and a sense of basic grammar please make an appropriate alternative change? Thanks. 86.177.143.143 (talk) 01:11, 12 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It should say The Collings and Herrin Podcast - could somebody make this change please? This is the way it was before it was pointlessly changed (see below).

[quote]He has collaborated with the broadcaster Andrew Collins, initially on the radio comedy series Banter, then on Collins' BBC 6 Music show and the Collings and Herrin Podcast (presently on hiatus).[/quote]

As it is - the above editor is correct - it looks like the podcast was a Collins project along with the radio show. 81.151.12.249 (talk) 20:46, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Does anyone read these talk pages? How are you supposed to improve articles when they're locked and nobody with rank responds to suggestions on the talk pages? 81.151.12.249 (talk) 20:23, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Personal life

If he really went out with Julia Sawalha can we have a reference that isn't literally a joke? It just says he had a shrine to her on a TV show. He also had one to the Corrs, is this meant to be proof of a relationship? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.108.191.84 (talk) 18:20, 24 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Are you unable to edit this article too? 86.184.8.41 (talk) 07:35, 26 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

He did go out with her, but proof is quite difficult to find, other than his own website and podcasts. Hwoodie99 (talk) 10:23, 2 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Can't edit article - please fix

This article can't be edited. I don't have this problem with any other pages. Can somebody fix this please? Thanks. 86.184.8.41 (talk) 11:21, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Article can't be edited

Hello! The article can't be edited! Anyone know why?¿ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.238.84.65 (talk) 13:04, 10 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Selected Works: tables rather than lists?

Hello, guardians of this page. It's good Wikipedia practice to avoid lists, and there are exhaustive lists of apparently "selected" works on Richard Herring's page. How about we reorganise them into neat and readable tables like this one? I based it on the table at Woody Allen filmography. This example is specifically for his major stand-up shows but we could adapt it for radio work, TV work, books etc. What do people think? Feel free to run with it. Rob (talk) 23:47, 27 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Stand Up Shows

Year	Show	Cycle
Year	Show	Edinburgh	Tour	DVD
1994	Richard Herring is Fat^[1]	Yes
1995	Richard Herring is All Man^[2]	Yes
2001	Christ on a Bike	Yes	Yes
2002	Talking Cock^[3]	Yes	Yes
2004	The 12 Tasks of Hercules Terrace^[4]	Yes	Yes	Yes
2005	Someone Likes Yoghurt^[5]	Yes	Yes	Yes
2006	Ménage à un^[6]	Yes	Yes	Yes
2007	Oh Fuck, I'm 40!^[7]	Yes	Yes	Yes
2008	The Headmaster's Son	Yes	Yes	Yes^[8]
2009	Hitler Moustache^[9]	Yes	Yes	Yes
2010	Christ on a Bike: The Second Coming^[10]	Yes	Yes	Yes
2011	What Is Love, Anyway?^[11]	Yes	Yes	Yes
2012	Talking Cock: The Second Coming^[12]	Yes	Yes

This looks good to me, though maybe not the colour, but I'm not fussy. Ged UK 13:39, 28 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I would propose greatly cutting this material unless it is verifiable. --John (talk) 12:46, 29 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, clearly it should be verifiable, but verifying the existence of tours in teh past shouldn't be too hard. Ged UK 13:13, 2 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've added references to the vast majority of the Selected Works section. Tell me if you have any issues with it. Not sure what we should do with the Edinburgh Shows section - I think it would be nice to keep - but not as it is.Wiggs (talk) 15:37, 5 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Nice one. We now have comprehensive tables with references. I'd now humbly suggest merging the ungainly "Edinburgh Shows" list into the other sections (mainly "Plays" and "Standup Shows") to avoid repetition. If an "Edinburgh" column is added to the "Plays" and "Standup Shows" tables as in the above example, no significant information will be lost. Rob (talk) 20:33, 18 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've completed the table for standup shows and incorporated it into the article. It looks good IMHO! See what you think. Rob (talk) 18:32, 20 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

References

Sources

Imdb is not a reliable source, as it is user-generated like Wikipedia itself.
Richardherring.com is not a reliable source, as it belongs to the subject of the article.
Itunes is not a reliable source, as it is a commercial site which exists to promote its own sales.

What this article needs is more reviews by independent news media; the Guardian, the BBC, even chortle.co.uk. Anything which cannot be sourced to such real-world sources will have to be removed. --John (talk) 12:51, 29 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, IMDB and RH.com are reliable if we're talking about teh existence of tours and shows, though not for critical appraisal or notability. Ged UK 13:15, 2 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No, see WP:IMDB. It almost never adds anything to add a link to IMDB to a Wikipedia article. --John (talk) 19:41, 4 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

English or British?

A change was made to say that Richard is an English, rather than British comedian. How is this is determined, and what are the past precedents? Gordon (talk) 07:31, 10 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Unless there is evidence to the contrary (a specific identification by RH as English rather than British, for example) then we list people as 'British' as their nationality. --Super Nintendo Chalmers (talk) 08:33, 10 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

No, you very much have that the wrong way round. Majority of articles use English/Scottish/Welsh instead of British UNLESS there is a reference where the subject states they only identify as being British. The fact that anyone would have an issue with Englishman Richard Herring being described as English is certainly interesting though.

Skijump777 (talk) 17:51, 31 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your slightly strange comments. I had another look at Wikipedia:Nationality and it's quite clear that we should usually go for the country of which someone is a citizen. However, Wikipedia:Nationality of people from the United Kingdom does clarify further and says that there's not a 'right' nationality to chose and that in the absence of other information, we should generally leave what's on the article. So, while 'British' has been used here without problem for several years and there was probably no reason to change it, there also seems to be no problem with listing as English now it's been changed. No issue is had with anything, though I did enjoy your paranoia, thank you. --Super Nintendo Chalmers (talk) 20:52, 31 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Surely, then it should revert to what was originally there? Gordon (talk) 14:57, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

References

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[1] ttp://www.richardherring.com/archive/downloads.php?s=Programme

[2] ttp://www.richardherring.com/archive/index-parttwo.php

[3] ttp://metro.co.uk/2002/08/07/richard-herring-talking-cock-475988/

[4] ttp://www.chortle.co.uk/shows/edinburgh_fringe_2004/r/1266/richard_herring%3A_the_12_tasks_of_hercules_terrace

[5] ttp://www.chortle.co.uk/shows/edinburgh_fringe_2005/r/1662/richard_herring%3A_someone_likes_yoghurt

[6] ttp://www.broadwaybaby.com/listing.php?id=1382

[7] ttp://www.suchsmallportions.com/feature/live-comedy-review-richard-herring-oh-fuck-im-40

[8] "Richard Herring – The Headmaster's Son".

[9] ttp://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/comedy/reviews/richard-herring-hitler-moustache-underbelly-edinburgh-1773849.html

[10] ttp://londonist.com/2010/12/comedy-review-richard-herring-christ-on-a-bike-the-second-coming.php

[11] ttp://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/theatre-dance/reviews/richard-herring-what-is-love-anyway-udderbellys-pasture-edinburgh-2333443.html

[12] ttp://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/2012/oct/21/richard-herring-talking-cock-review

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