Talk:Richard Herbert (died 1510)

Deleted text: seems to be mixing up William's brother and son information (Completed, see below)

From what I've read, including the introductory line to this article, there are two Sir Richard Herberts from the same family related to William Herbert, 1st Earl of Pembroke: - one is a brother Richard who died with brother William in battle in 1469 - another is his illegitimate son, the subject for this article

So, I'm questioning the following:

1) "He was taken prisoner at the Battle of Edgecote, and together with his brother William was beheaded, 26 Jul 1469. (Buckley, Genealogies of the Carmarthenshire Sheriffs from 1539-1913, p. 5)" I think this is the brother Richard of William, not the son.

2) "(died 26 July 1469)" again I think this is the brother Richard, not the son in this article

3) "He was the dedicatee of the eulogistic poetry of Bedo Brwynllys and the father of Sir William Herbert, later 1st Earl of Pembroke of the second creation." I'm confused by this, since the subject Richard's father was the 1st Earl of Pembroke - but I'm not familiar with "of the second creation". Can someone help sort this out? This link may help: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Herbert,_William_(1501%3F-1570)_(DNB00) --CaroleHenson (talk) 22:41, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Information moved "from" the article, but made available for review in talk history. (updated a bit 14 Feb 2011)--CaroleHenson (talk) 22:57, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Items 1 and 2 are clearly his uncle and continue to be removed from the article.

I better understand what "of second creation means now." Richard's son William is the 1st Earl of Pembroke of the second creation, which is noted in the article.--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:10, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Is he a knight?

From queries I'm able to only find one reference that Richard was knighted - but without any supporting information. I found patent information from 1465 to grant land in Ewyas to Richard Herbert (knight), but I don't know if that's this Richard or his uncle that died in 1469. How can I find out if Richard Herbert was a knight?

Thanks so much!!--CaroleHenson (talk) 04:43, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

The article says he was knighted by Henry VIII, but it would help if an exact date could be found for the date he received his knighthood.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 19:31, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Herbert died in 1510, a year after Henry's accession to the throne. It's possible it was Henry VII who knighted him. That's why we need a date. Of course he received his appointments in 1509, so that could be when he was knighted.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 19:33, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, that makes sense. How do you manage situations where there's enough information for an assumption, but not clear information (for instance add a footnote about the item or qualify the statement appropriately? --CaroleHenson (talk) 22:21, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

In searching: Shaw, William Arthur: The knights of England; a complete record from the earliest time to the present day of the knights of all the orders of chivalry in England, Scotland, and Ireland, and of knights bachelors; Incorporating a complete list of knights bachelors dubbed in Ireland, compiled by G. D. Burtchaell. London, Printed and published for the Central chancery of the orders of knighthood, Sherratt and Hughes, 1906. ---> I found a Richard Herbert who was knighted as Knight Bachelor in 1513, but that would have been 3 years after he died, assuming a correct year of death. I'm not seeing that he was knighted, but still looking. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CaroleHenson (talk • contribs) 01:44, 12 February 2011 (UTC) Updated days --> years.--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:18, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and put in that it's not clear if he was knighted: He clearly was an Esquire from at least 1465 til. Many sources give him the title "Sir Richard" - but Sil (most recent source) in particular denounces that conclusion. Does it make sense in terms of approach to state that he was at least an Esquire, his knighthood is unknown, however he's called "Sir Richard" in most sources about him? (see updated article) --CaroleHenson (talk) 10:07, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Stil a stub? (Completed)

I've finished the update of this page. Is it still considered a stub? Thanks!!! --CaroleHenson (talk) 16:11, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Received input following editor review that the article could be changed from a stub to start, per Reaper Eternal.--CaroleHenson (talk) 00:23, 17 February 2011 (UTC)