Talk:Rice wine

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Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 08:09, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Lao rice wine

In a 2005 article about Lao cuisine, The New York Times described a "pink, fizzy" rice wine called "khao kam" or "lao khao kam." Does anyone know about this? Badagnani 22:51, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Answer

Yes, I know about this from my Lao trip 2008 as dark red, brown or "black" rice liquor (khao = rice) from the Ban Xanghai region South between Luang Prabang an Pak Ou. It is obviously NOT a liquor or distilled spirit, it is rather naturally brewed "sour mash and yeast" fermented and made of red glutinous sticky rice. If it is made fine, it tastes excellent like a sweet-sour dark Madeira wine, if not, it tastes like rotten mould. --100humbert (talk) 09:40, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Addendum

The boatman then handed me another glass, this one containing a syrupy red liquid with the consistency of cough medicine. "Fermentee riz noir et sucre," he explained. I struggled to remember the name of the traditional rice wine popular in northern Laos. "Lao khao... Lao khao...," I started to say. "Oui, Lao khao kam," he replied. "Dee lai lai!" I swallowed the shot and immediately thought of cough syrup again. Actually, it wasn't that bad, but the wine left a stale rice aftertaste that almost had me longing for another shot of Lao-Lao. The boatman's friend offered me a bottle, ...
http://www.edwebproject.org/seasia/luangprabang3.html
--100humbert (talk) 10:27, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Rice ethanol

What about rice ethanol as ethanol fuel ?. --Mac (talk) 06:49, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Answer

Not relevant neither in South China (Szechuan Region) nor in Laos, as gasoil and Diesel prices float around 30 EUR ct or 45 USD ct per liter as of May 2008. Thailand is an exporter of rice to Europe; no info about ethanol. --100humbert (talk) 09:44, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Beer

The alcohol content of beer range is innacurate, it should either be changed to "averaging 4-8%", or the higher proof beers need to be represented. Many beers can range from 10 to 12 % ABV, and though not common, there are beers approaching 27% ABV. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.126.50.81 (talk) 23:44, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

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Nepalese rice wine?

Raksi can be made from rice, but it is distilled and therefore not a "wine". Grain-based alcoholic drinks in Nepal are probably better classified as "beers" using a mashing process, not conversion of starch to sugar via molds. LADave (talk) 20:54, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

This page needs a major edit

Sake and related alcoholic beverages made from fermented rice should not be referred to as "rice wine", period. "Wine" by definition is made from fruit, not a grain such as rice. I work in the industry.we have an obligation to discuss this properly.

Namazaki -raw fermented rice beverages ferment to approx. 18 to 20% alcohol. In Japan, most bottled sake is diluted down to something closer to "wine", approx. 12-14%, but it is still sake - not wine.

We should re-write the entire article to be more accurate.

Thoughts? USNAJumper (talk) 05:25, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

• Regrettably, the term "rice wine" is firmly embedded in the English language, and there is no chance of eliminating it now. Try Googling "rice wine" if you disbelieve it. Wahrmund (talk) 19:29, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

• I tend to agree with USNAJumper, but I also accept that rice wine is very much an established term in the English language. As such, I think it's sufficient that the article clearly states that despite the name, rice wine is not actually wine in any meaningful sense. As an aside, namazake is unpasteurized sake, typically diluted to 15-16% ABV like most sake. Undiluted sake is "genshu". If you combine the two for a sake that is both undiluted and unpasteurized, that's "nama genshu". Maitreya (talk) 12:10, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Errors and Oddities

The following sentence makes no sense: "However, beer production employs a mashing process to convert starch to sugars, whereas rice wine uses the amylolytic process."

The mashing process is an amylolytic process. The only difference is that malted barley naturally contains amylase, whereas the production of "rice wine" requires the addition of an amylase-producing mold (usually Aspergillus Oryzae). Also, as has been pointed out already, Japanese sake is typically diluted to about 14-16% ABV. Even genshu (undiluted sake) is normally in the 18-20% ABV range. I find it very hard to believe that unfortified "rice wines" can reach 25% ABV, since your average brewer's yeast would be killed off by the alcohol before reaching those levels. As such, I propose to lower the stated "typical alcohol content" of rice wines to 15-20% ABV. I'll leave this here for a little while, then edit the article unless I receive objections. Maitreya (talk) 11:53, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

The article says "beer production employs a mashing process to convert starch to sugars, whereas rice wine uses the amylolytic process." But the amylolytic process article seems to describe the beer production process as an amylolytic process. Something needs to be clarified. It appears that sake is produced using aspergillus oryzae, mashing, and yeast, whereas beer is produced using malting, mashing, and yeast. But actually I believe malting is not essential to all beer production, as there are grain mashes produced for making whiskey that don't use malting. Is "rice wine" produced using malting? What, exactly, is the distinction? Also, we need some cited reliable sources for this discussion of sake versus "rice wine". —BarrelProof (talk) 05:58, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

• Malting isn't technically essential to beer production, but the enzymes (amylase) produced by malting are. You can add amylase (produced in a lab, basically) to a mash consisting of unmalted grains to achieve the same results, in terms of conversion of starch to sugars. However, the malting process also adds flavors and aromas that most drinkers would consider essential to beer. "Rice wine" is not produced using malting, primarily because malted rice has significantly lower diastatic power (ability to convert starch to sugar) than malted barley. However, aspergillus oryzae (and some related molds) performs the same basic function by producing the necessary amylase for conversion. As for the sake versus "rice wine" discussion, I'm not sure what you mean. Rice wine is a general term, whereas sake/nihonshu refers to a specific type of rice wine, so the short answer is that all sake is rice wine, but not all rice wine is sake. Maitreya (talk) 13:23, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

In technical terms, whether a beverage is a beer, whiskey or wine depends on the source of the starches or sugars as well as the post fermentation level and type of filtering. A wine must have as its origin fruit. So its candidacy as a wine is right out, it is not wine. It is however either a whiskey or a beer depending on whether the fermenting organisms are filtered out or not. The one I drank the other day was filtered, so I feel that it is technically a whiskey. Some types may be beers. Beer production is an intermediate step in whiskey production, while it is the terminal step in beer production. Whiskey is typically not carbonated though, so further 'research' is needed :) AQBachler (talk) 20:18, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Fixing prescriptive grammar with an article name change

Two issues:

1. From the article, problematic unsourced prescriptive grammar: "Rice wine is an alcoholic beverage made from rice. [...] Sake is often referred to in English-speaking countries as "rice wine"; however, this usage is a misnomer.[citation needed]" There is no reason to use the term "rice wine" as the article title if it's not clear what it means.
2. "Rice beer" redirects here, however it wouldn't be appropriate to include in an article titled "rice wine" about how rice is included as an ingredient in Budweiser and Asahi lagars.

Solution: just name the article "Rice-based alcoholic beverage." This would clearly define the scope of the article to include rice-based alcoholic beverages. The scope of "rice wine" is ambiguous at worst, and unnecessarily restrictive at best, and a bad redirect target for "rice beer." --Makkachin (talk) 19:01, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Rice wine is NOT whiskey

Rice wine is NOT whiskey, technically or in any other sense. They are both distilled beverages, but that's about where the similarities end. Whiskey is made from mash that is malted with enzymes; Chinese rice wine is made from mash that is fermented with Aspergillus mold. Whiskey is typically distilled several times and is consumed at 40-55 abv; huangjiu is typically only distilled once and is served at lower alcohol strengths. The flavors are also very different.

To say rice wine is technically whiskey is like saying marijuana is technically tobacco because they are both produced in more or less the same way. I am reverting the edit accordingly. Spaceboyjosh (talk) 01:17, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

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