Talk:Reza Hosseini Nassab

Grand Ayatollah title

When we want to know if a person has PhD, we should ask his university, not the normal persons. when we like to know if Mr. Hosseini Nassab is Ayatollah we should check with his Seminary. The Islamic Shia Seminary in Qom (which Hosseini Nassab was graduate from) mentioned his name as "Grand Ayatollah" which is the title for only Shia Maraji: http://hoseininasab.andishvaran.ir/fa/scholarmainpage.htmlAcademycanada (talk) 01:05, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

Dispute on Ayatollah title

The grand "Ayatollah" title should be awarded by religious authorities. Mr. Hosseini Nassab has claimed this title and there is absolutely no Shia cleric that supports this title for him. The author of the page should provide valid religious references from current Imams or higher order Shia clerics to claim the title. I request to remove the title. Linux4ns (talk) 21:23, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

I think that he has got the backing of the clergy in Qum where he studied. If not, then they would surely have rejected his claim publicly. If you can prove that no other clergy accept him as Ayatullah al-Uzma and therefore Marja-i Taqlid. Then we can remove him from the list. Until then, he passes the criteria of being one. i.e. publishing a Risala. (which can be found on his website)--عيسى (talk) 23:20, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Another evidence: The Islamic Shia Seminary in Qom (Greate Hawza Ilmiyah) mentioned his name as Grand Ayatollah which is only for Maraji: http://hoseininasab.andishvaran.ir/fa/scholarmainpage.html Academycanada (talk) 03:25, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

Ahlulbeyt Assembly

He is not anymore holding any responsibility in the Ahlulbeyt Assembly. Please delete his affiliation. Linux4ns (talk) 00:29, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

It is enough to visit the website of Ahlul Bayt Assembly of Canada and click the button of Manager, to understand that Mr. Hosseini Nassab is the manager of that Assembly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eihsan (talk • contribs) 04:25, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Please visit in a few days. The website just needs a matter of few days to be updated. A call to "Ahlulbeyt Assembly" head office will clear the matter. Linux4ns (talk) 17:16, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

You asked us to wait a few days, and I waited a few weeks, but there is no change in that website. Can you please appoint another deadline to see the change.You can call them again from Toronto. Eihsan (talk) 02:34, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Evidences of title of Marja

According to the accepted criteria and standards in Wikipedia, the list of Marjas contains those Ayatollahs who have published a Resalah, regardless the number of followers they have. Hosseini Nassab was teaching in the biggest Shia seminary in Qum for more than ten years and the Management Centre of Hawza in Qum recognized him as one of the outstanding instructors in Hawza, in 1991, which is 18 years ago. Please see his web-site http://www.hoseini.org/certificate.htm

The management Centre of Qum at that time was directed by Grand Ayatollah Fazel Lankarani, Mohaqqiq Damad, and Taher Shams (3 big Mujtahids). Therein you will find a document from the relevant Hawza confirming that he has the doctorate which means he is a Mujtahid according to Hawza regulations. This document is the highest official scientific certificate and professorship document, issued by the Management Centre of Qum Seminary in 1991. He has written more than 50 books in Fiqh, Usule-Fiqh, ilme-Rejal, Logic, Astronomy and other Islamic sciences in Arabic, English and Farsi. He also has published his Resalah several years ago in different languages. His books and Resalah have been in his website. You can compare them with the books of other Marjas. By a simple search, you can find the sources such as Islamic organizations, independent websites and academic institutions which introduced him as one of Marjas and Grand Ayatollahs. Here are some of them in different languages:

• [1] Source No. 1
• [2] Source No. 2
• [3] Source No. 3
• [4] Source No. 4
• [5] Source No. 5
• [6] Source No. 6
• [7] Source No. 7
• [8] Source No. 8
• [9] Source No. 9
• [10] Source No. 10 Academycanada (talk) 14:25, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Assessment of sources in self-proclamation of Marja title

There is a major discussion in the Persian language page (fa:بحث:سیدرضا حسینی‌نسب) about how the so called certificate is the proof of Ijtihad and how it is different in the same context of Hawza regulations from becoming a Mujtahid, which is still unanswered. I know that there is a non relevant explanation afterwards in a vague attempt to just have a response, but it is clear that the question is still there.

Furthermore, By simply visiting the sources that provided above, one can easily understand that this is just a shameful attempt to misleadingly insert Mr. Hosseini Nassab's name in the directory of Grand Ayatollahs and consequently Maraaje. Here is some examples of the contents of above references which the judgement would be on the reader.

Sources # 4, 5, 6, and 8 are Wikipedia extractions which basically is all your inserted opinions. I appreciate if the reader compares theses references with actual Wikipedia pages to find out who is the most active to insert Mr. Hosseini Nassab's name in those pages. So basically in these cases you are referencing to your own insertions, and by the way you are doing it everywhere. This reminds me of a Persian proverb with translates to "Asked for an eye-witness, the fox offered his tail."

Source # 10 is a website managed by Mr. Hosseini Nassab's team which has an obvious conflict of interest with your claim.

Sources # 2, and 9 are personal weblogs which reflect their author's opinions, not a Marja's or the Management Centre of Hawza in Qum.

Source # 7 is a link box of islamic websites that anybody can insert a link of his own webpage. This is just like Alulbeyt website where Mr. Hosseini Nassab (or his team) has (have) entered his website link and you keep advertising that reference to misleadingly prove that his self-proclaimed position is supported by Grand Seyed Sistani (May Allah prolong his life).

Source # 1 and 3 are also Wikipedia like free encyclopedia that you may submit your information for publication. I am still investigating source #3 which is a Portuguese Brazilian encyclopedia (All About Guide) that is an all purpose guide website with the same nature of most of your references.

I invite all valued Wikipedia readers and users to notice the contents of these sources before counting them supportive in favor of the proclamation. I hope that numbers do not justify what the content does not.

Linux4ns (talk) 01:18, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

The answer

1. First of all, the sources No. 2, 5, 7, 8, 9, and 10 are independent websites and do not have any relation with Wikipedia.

2. Secondly, we should respect Wikipedia and its users and administrators and the sites which are related to Wikipedia. If you treat them with disrespect and do not trust them, in fact, you do not trust on yourself. Because you also consider yourself as one of the users of Wikipedia.

3. The proverb you have used is not suitable for Wikipedia and its users, because Wikipedia is an encyclopedia which has been created by the users, and the users are not like tails of fox (as you think), they are in fact, the main creators of an international encyclopedia. As one person was saying, the Persian people use that proverb when, for example, a lot of people pay money and buy a building some were, but suddenly a person says: I and my spouse and my son are the owners of that building. People say: who is your witness? And that person says: my spouse or my son. 99.253.213.248 (talk) 11:58, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your discussion, but I need to clarify some points that may have been confused.

1. I did neither say sources #2, 7, 9 and 10 are related to Wikipedia, nor say they are dependent. The contents of sources # 4, 5, 6, and 8 are Wikipedia extractions.

2. I did not disrespect any Wikipedia user or admin. I disputed the reasoning provided and warned the readers not to be surprised by just the number of sources given as to be evident.

3. I clearly pointed that proverb to the way of reasoning of the user who provided that. It does not have anything to do with other users and Wikipedia itself. This I think is clear that you can not reference the validity of a subject to itself! I suggest you read that again carefully and do not compile it wrongly.

4. Thanks for your points, but clearly you just accused me (of your own interpretation of the text) and did not really answer anything!

Linux4ns (talk) 23:14, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Which one comes first? To be or not to be?

Well, I mean to be in the list of Marja's or not to be. This discussion is followed from here, where the question is that Mr. Nassab should be originally put on the list until we hear no response to the disputed facts and references of his being a Marja' for a million years? Or he and his followers should justify his place among Marja's first, and then put him on the list? At least when there are open issues, isn't it closer to accuracy to wait until the issues are rectified and then allow to put hi name on the list?

Here's few clarifications following the discussion started here:

1. To become a Marja' one should be Grand Ayatollah, not just Ayatollah. The credentials posted on Mr. Nassab's website (which we assume valid and true for the moment and purpose), justify him only to be a Mujtahid which is an Ayatollah. There's absolutely no evidence of him being a Grand Ayatollah, unless his very own claim on his website.

2. The required credentials for being a Marja' are not just certificates that shows one became a Marja'. That is to say briefly, one has to assess his religious views (including but not limited to Fatwas) against all possible and existing views about the issue and argue the opposite ones in a specified manner that is established in each religious school. If successful in all of them (which you can imagine how a big matter of efforts and several years of study it requires), one can publish a resaale and finally declare to be a Marja'

I believe this would be enough to start, and I will gradually add more comments on how Mr. Nassab's qualifications are still not even close to be called a qualified Mujtahid. Until then I think this is quite fair, safe, and accurate for his name (even temporarily until these matters are rectified) to be removed from the List_of_marjas.

--Linux4ns (talk) 22:38, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Basically, if you can either prove that his certificate is fake, or provide fatawa from at least 5 other Maraji denouncing him as a Marja, then he will remain on the list. As I have said, the maraji keep checks and balances on each other. If one claims marjiyat without the correct qualifications, then they will speak out against it. To be a marja, you must be declared as such by at least 5 other maraji, so why don't you ask Hawzah Ilmiyya if he is a marja or not?--عيسى (talk) 10:33, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Well this is a pretty new rule you established! Therefore, if I claim to be Marja' today, my name will enter the list until someone takes his time to go around and ask 5 other Maraaje to issue Fatwa against me! That's simply not viable. The question is why out of all those many references out there, not a single one of them knows Mr. Nassab as a qualified Mujtahid? By the way, at your final statement you said something good! "To be a marja, you must be declared as such by at least 5 other maraji", which my question is why after this many disputes Mr. Nassab is not able to bring ONE SINGLE ejaza from other Maraje to declare being one of them? Why after these many years that he keeps posting "ejazatol khoms" from some Maraje in his webpage, he suddenly removed it? Isn't it because he has heard the news of his false claim's dispute from them?

Nevertheless, I still think that before full justification of a fact, it should not be rushed to publish that. This is obvious and accurate. Linux4ns (talk) 00:22, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm...fair enough. You make a good point brother. Sorry for me reporting you before. Jazakullah.--عيسى (talk) 15:27, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

The Answer

1. As you also said, Mr. Nassab reached his scientific certificate in 1991 which proves that he was Mujtahid at that time. (18 years ago).A Mujtahid who has taught several years in a Hawza (Islamic seminary), and is recognized as an outstanding instructor in Hawza by the Council of Management Center of the Seminary, and has written many books in fields of Islamic jurisprudence, the principle of Jurisprudence, logic, Ilm Al-Rijal, and commentary of Quran, can be named as Grand Ayatollh. If you check the official website of Mr. Nassab [here] you will see that the Council of Management Center in the Seminary has recognized him as “Outstanding Instructor” of Qom Seminary, which is one of the biggest Islamic seminaries. And he also has written more than 50 books in different languages in fields of jurisprudence, principles of jurisprudence, logic, Shia’ism, commentary of Quran, the knowledge of Al-Rijal, and other Islamic topics. His books also are available in his website and you can check them online. That’s why the Islamic organizations, Academic institutions, and independent websites have named Mr. Hosseini Nassab as Grand Ayatollah and Marja. Some sources have been mentioned in this page above as examples.

2. According to the list of Marjas in Wikipedia, that list contains those Ayatollahs who have published a Resalah, regardless the number of followers they have.

3. On the basis of this criteria, Mr. Hosseini Nassab with such a background, who was recognized as an outstanding instructor of Hawza since 18 years ago and is a Mujtahid and published Resalah with more than 50 other books in Jurisprudence and other Islamic topics, should be on the list of Marjas, as the other independent and scientific organizations have mentioned him as a Marja too.Eihsan (talk) 05:30, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

1. I said if "we assume valid and true for the moment", we have serious concerns about that too, which we discuss soon. Also this is what you claim that he can be named a Grand Ayatollah because of his efforts, this should be judged by his competitors, teachers, and students (if he has any)! Among several valid references out there, there is not a single one recognizing him as Grand Ayatollah. Please do not refer me again to personal weblogs and link boxes of islamic sites that everybody can insert his website link as a reference. You understand that you can enter your name with whatever title you want, but that is not recognized officially until your teachers or great scholars name you or recognize you so.

2. Please also understand that one should have Ejaza to publish a resaale. You can also copy and paste the contents of an existing resale, change few Fatwas and publish it on your very own website. That does not mean you are authorized and qualified to do so! This argument has been brought to your friends attention several times in different pages of Wikipedia since long time ago, but you simply ignore that and continue to insert fake references and disputed statements again and again. Here is an example (in persian language).

3. You simply ignore the basis of disputed fact and restate your own judgement, which is indeed false. Focus on the question, understand it, and try to answer or dispute the reasoning. You simple just copy your statements and keep changing the article the way you like. This is not acceptable in a scientific worldwide encyclopedia like Wiki.

Linux4ns (talk) 00:48, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

1. As it was mentioned, according to the list of Marjas in Wikipedia, that list contains those Ayatollahs who have published a Resalah, regardless the number of followers they have.

2. Mr. Nassab reached the highest official certificate from the management of Qom Seminary in 1991 as an outstanding instructor of Hawzah Ilmiah , signed and sealed by Ayatollah Jalal Tahir Shamsi, the secretary General of the council of management center of Qom seminary. This certificate (as I explained in this page above) is the document of Ijtihad. According to the regulations of that council, Ijtihad is equal to Doctorate. The management Centre of Qum at that time was directed by Grand Ayatollah Fazel Lankarani (who was a Marja), Mohaqqiq Damad, and Taher Shams (3 big Mujtahids). They approved this document.

3. On the basis of criteria of Wikipedia, Mr. Hosseini Nassab with such a background, who was recognized as an outstanding instructor of Hawza since 18 years ago and is a Mujtahid and published Resalah with more than 50 other books, and has followers, should be on the list of Marjas. If you do not want that for any personal reason, you should change the criteria of Wikipedia. If you so, then names of most of Marjas should be deleted from the list of Marjas because of your personal or political reason.Eihsan (talk) 02:01, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

1. I say a Grand Ayatollah can ONLY publish Resalah, not an Ayatollah. This is clear. Regardless of any list, Mr. Nassab should first reach the position of Grand Ayatollah, which he hasn't yet. So please wait until then and do not rush to insert unjustified facts.

2. I suggest you read the original question in #2 and read your answers on #2 again. You completely ignore to address the question and keep saying that Mr. Nassab has the certificate. Well I said OK, we assume he has the certificate. Many many more people have Ijtihad certificate. But this only means that the person can extract the Sharia' rulings himself. This is not a certificate to be Marja'. Please understand this, read the argument again, and try you elaborate on this. We need the matter to be resolved, not to be repeated several times with you keep saying the same. please respect.

3. There is a new good question here. Everywhere you try to say he has got his credentials 18-19 years ago, which you believe he became a Mujtahid. Well, then what did he do after that? Did he continue on his way to become a qualified mujtahid by continuing to study more, to teach more, and to learn more, or he kept traveling around to establish Islamic centers, meet with city and government officials to get photo credits, etc? Everyone knows that mujtahids continue on Kharij Figh'h studies after principle steps, to assess, examine, and explore their own as well as their competitors' ideas and view points in different branches of Figh'h and Osoul. The question is how many years did Mr. Nassab study Kharij, if any? Where was it? In Germany or Canada? Who were his teachers and fellow classmates?

4. If you do not know, please ask him to let you know: What happened that he left Islamic Centre in Hamburg, Germany? Was he or was not he appointed by Global Ahlulbeyt Assembly to work there? What happened then? Does his service time finished or he has been dismissed? If his service finished normally, he should have a certificate to thank him for his years of service in there. This is the routine. But I tell you the story: when he started the same actions to claim such and such after he gained some popularity, the management of Global Ahlulbeyt Assembly dismissed him from the service and position. So Mr. Nassab left with no choice to come back to Canada, and out of his manner to mislead people, established Ahlulbeyt Assembly of Canada pertaining to continue the same service under authorization of Global Ahlulbeyt Assembly. For years he kept posting to be authorized and in service by the organization until recently he removed that and you confessed that assembly of Canada does not have anything to do with the original organization.

Linux4ns (talk) 17:58, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

1. A Grand Ayatollah is a Mujtahid who has been an outstanding instructor in Hawzah (Islamic seminary), and has written many books in Jurisprudence, principle of jurisprudence, logic, Ilm Al-Rijal and other types of Islamic knowledge. All of these conditions are fulfilled in case of Mr. Nassab. The documents mentioned on this page show that the highest management center of Qom seminary has confirmed his Ijtihad (which is equal to Doctorate), and has recognized him as an outstanding instructor of Qom seminary in 1991. Since that time up to now, he has written more than 50 books in Jurisprudence, principles of jurisprudence, logic, Ilm Al-Rijal and other types of Islamic knowledge. His books are available in his website and in the website of Islamic sciences. [here].

2. You said: What happened that he left Islamic Centre in Hamburg, Germany? Was he or was not he appointed by Global Ahlulbeyt Assembly to work there?

This issue does not have any relation with Ijtihad of Mr. Nassab, but if you check the website of Islamic center in Hamburg, you will realize that that Islamic center was established in June 1953, as a charitable organization in Germany and does not have any relation with Ahlul Bayt Assembly in Iran. According to the constitution of that center in Hamburg, the new Imam of the center shall be selected by the former Imam. Based on this procedure, Mr. Nassab was elected as manager and Imam of Islamic center in Hamburg from 1999 to 2003. Then he selected the next Imam and resigned and left Hamburg in 2003. You can see the story in the official website of Hamburg [here].

3. You mentioned again the issue of Ahlul Bayt assembly of Canada. You can read the answer at the beginning of this page. This issue also does not have any relation with Ijtihad of Mr. Nassab. But if it is necessary, I can mention in next post, the history of all 3 presidents of Ahlul Bayt Assembly of Canada since 1993. At the end, I kindly ask you to have enough searches about the issues before writing the notes, and do not mention the rumors here in Wikipedia. Eihsan (talk) 05:16, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Still, clearly moving away from answering any of above questions, especially Q2! Moderators, please advise!Linux4ns (talk) 17:32, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

If you mean the sources, you can find different sources such as:

[11] Islamopediaonline.org (By: Harvard university)

[12] website of Marjaa

[13] introduction of Marjas (By: Allama Azhar Hussain.

But if you want more information about Ahlul Bayt Assembly of Canada and its three chairmen, it is interesting to talk about them in next post. It is good idea to continue discussion about Mr. Nassab, because this makes more people and users to get familiar with him and the other sources which call him as a Marja.Academycanada (talk) 19:08, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

It seems that some users want more information about chairmen of Ahlul Bayt Assembly of Canada. There were 3 persons: Mr. Nassab, Mr. Mesbah Mousavi, and Mr. Ibrahimi. If there is a need, I will give more detail. 99.225.88.84 (talk) 23:06, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

I also have heard that Mr. Nassab was the first chairman, and Mr. Mesbah Mousave was the second one who was removed by Ayatollah Taskhiri, and the third one was Mr. Ibrahimi. I may add some more details about the causes of what happened in that assembly. Eihsan (talk) 05:48, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

By the way, Nassab was removed completely from the entire Assembly, couple of months ago. Let alone being a chair anymore. This removal was was due to his Marjaeeyah false claim. Linux4ns (talk) 19:02, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

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