Talk:Revolutionary

Semi-protected edit request on 9 March 2014

I think Steve Jobs of Apple deserves to be in the notable revolutionaries section.

125.63.54.146 (talk) 20:18, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Cannolis (talk) 15:53, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Does John Lennon

really belong on the list? I think not, but am not going to remove him until you have your say. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 05:21, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Wrong alphabetical order

How come the List of notable revolutionaries is ordered by first names and not surnames? That's illogical. Snowsuit Wearer (talk|contribs) 19:38, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Agree Charles Essie (talk) 18:53, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

I am surprised

to find Ayn Rand on the list of revolutionaries and intend to remove her unless some good documentation shows up. Carptrash (talk) 21:28, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

• I also am not happy about Pedro I of Brazil, about whm WP states, " He had to deal with threats from revolutionaries and insubordination by Portuguese troops, all of which he subdued." This is NOT the same as being a revolutionary. Carptrash (talk) 22:43, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
• And Bob Marley? I don't think the ganga revolution is what we are talking about. Is it? Carptrash (talk) 22:46, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
• Harriet Tubman, revolutionary? Carptrash (talk) 22:52, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
• Frederick Douglass? Are all abolitionists by definition revolutionaries? I don't think so. Carptrash (talk) 22:58, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
• and now Pope Francis? I obviously need to re-read our definition of "revolutionary." Carptrash (talk) 22:53, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
• Marcus Garvey. Is the leader of every movement considered to be a revolutionary? Not by me. Carptrash (talk) 23:02, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
• Martin Luther King Jr.? A revolutionary? Carptrash (talk) 04:26, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

  (copied and slightly edited from another talk page) No, Dr. King or his colleagues should not be formally listed as revolutionaries. Although their movement has been called the 'Second American Revolution' the movement was doing nothing more than dialoguing with the nation to obtain the principals and guarantees already existing in the Constitution and Declaration of Independence. The revolution had already occurred, the nation's laws and people just hadn't caught up to it yet. King, Bevel, and the rest put words and actions into reminding the public, the courts, and the politicians what those constitutional guarantees were, and asked them to get about the business of implementing them. Which they did. Randy Kryn 15:24, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

• This list definitely needs to be trimmed and properly sourced (and probably alphabetized too per Snowsuit Wearer). Would anyone like to help with this? Charles Essie (talk) 18:48, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

The section that reads

According to sociologist James Chowning Davies, political revolutionaries may be classified in two ways: According to the goals of the revolution they propose. Usually, these goals are part of a certain ideology. In theory, each ideology could generate its own brand of revolutionaries. In practice, most political revolutionaries have been either anarchists, communists, democrats, cybercrats, libertarians, statists, nationalists, republicans, fundamentalists, egalitarianists, titoists or socialists..

I would like to see a better reference, because really, cybercrats? Some of these are going to go if no source appears. Carptrash (talk) 16:24, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

"In practice" is not an argument. This is WP:OR unless you can provide good secondary RS to support the claim. My very best wishes (talk) 18:18, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

This is supposedly coming from Davis. If he does not mention each of these groups then they should be removed. Carptrash (talk) 23:00, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

Removal

[1] - The quote was taken from a WP:Primary source (a letter). Che Guevara said a lot of things about revolution. Why should anyone use this quote, rather than something else he said? This must be decided by secondary sources which would use the quote in connection with something, and most importantly, the quotation would be selected by the secondary RS. Same would apply to quotation of any primary sources, such the Bible, etc. My very best wishes (talk) 18:04, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

@My very best wishes: By the time all the unsourced material is removed there will be no article left. I am thinking of starting a chart of political revolutionaries by country so that we at least provide some examples. It would look like this. With references.

Quick check shows this is indeed a notable quote from Che Guevara mentioned in a number of books. OK, it just needed to be referenced to secondary RS. My very best wishes (talk) 15:09, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

Angola

Name	Dates	Associated groups	Associated revolution	Comments
Wilson dos Santos	died 1991	UNITA	Independence from Portugal and Angola's civil war	rumored to have been assented by Jonas Savimbi
Jonas Savimbi	1934-2002	UNITA ,	Independence from Portugal and Angola's civil war	Killed by Angolan government troops
Agostinho Neto	1922-1979	Popular Movement for the Liberation of Angola (MPLA)	Independence from Portugal and Angola's civil war

Your thoughts? Carptrash (talk) 01:24, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

Please see Category:Revolutionaries_by_nationality. Do we need a separate list? And even if we need it, this should be probably a separate page (list)... My very best wishes (talk) 02:02, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

I had not sen that category. it seems more than enough. Carptrash (talk) 04:15, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

Michail Bakunin

Michail Bakunin wrote something called Revolutionary Catechism a few years before Sergey Nechayev wrote The Revolutionary Catechism. Probably easy to get them crossed, or even turned into one publication. Thanks for fixing that. Carptrash (talk) 17:26, 23 November 2017 (UTC)