Talk:Resistance is futile

Untitled

I'm probably wrong but didn't robocop use the phrase in any of the robocop movies?

"It has subsequently been assimilated into popular culture" Pun intended? -- 158.42.188.203 07:52, 13 June 2007 (UTC) I just noticed that. Someone has a sense of humor.90.197.255.194 (talk) 13:18, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Uniqueness of this phrase

Another category perhaps

Why don't we add the title of the first episode that this was in? And maybe the writer of that episode? And links to other borg quotes?

Consider category: "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" ? 60.231.90.122 06:49, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Something needs to be said of "Resistance is Useless," used by HHGG's Vogon race. (see also vogon)--160.36.118.62 06:13, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Does that phrase (either with "useless" or "futile") come from real life? Did British policemen say it or something? --69.255.17.40 10:46, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

I also agree that a brief reference to the HHGG usage would be helpful, if only because many people misremember the Vogons as shouting 'Resistance is futile!'. As a 53 year old Brit I have no recollection of either phrase being used by the police, or indeed by anybody else outside fiction. --80.176.142.11 (talk) 12:27, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

"Any resistance is perfectly futile" was part of the German declaration of war on the Netherlands. --Lesouris 21:23, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi, I've updated the first para with blurb about its origins in Doctor Who (as you may know many of the writers of STNG were fans of said program). I hope it is not too long but rest assured, what I have entered is totally accurate. Should a new category entitled "Origins" be added? P.S. Its origins in Who predate HHGG by about a decade, so I don't see any point in mentioning HHGG in the article. --Andrew Byatt 16:00, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Is there any significance to the use of the phrase before its use by the Borg? Can any link be provided between the use of the phrase before the Borg and the Borg themselves? Do any media references come before the Borg used it? Alastairward (talk) 23:41, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I recently also noticed the glaring inconsistency of not acknowledging that the phrase "resistance is useless" has been common in Science Fiction monsters for decades before there was any Star Trek: The Next Generation, and even before the existence of ANYTHING called Star Trek. The phrase "resistance is useless" clearly means the same thing as "resistance is futile" and it's been used for decades in various forms of science fiction, print and movies and television. It's therefore rather silly to believe that those who wrote for Star Trek had never heard the phrase before.

Yet still, today, I got this objection: I removed what you had added to the article above; "It is unclear what if any relationship this phrase has to the older Science Fiction catch-phrase, "Resistance is useless!" as used by sources preceeding the introduction of the Borg in Star Trek (see Vogon and [The Dalek Invasion of Earth] for some examples)."

If it is unclear, then it shouldn't really be added to the article. To do so is making a bit of mild original research. Alastairward (talk) 10:05, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

I cannot disagree more. Given that this phrase was in use decades by prominent science fiction shows and books, it's very silly to demand absolute proof; clearly the phrases are the same. We don't need any "research" to prove the similarity, and to simply say it's unclear where the relationship exists when it is unclear; it defies logic to believe that the phrase was totally original to Star Trek: The Next Generation and none of the writers and producers were aware of the original phrase. Refusing to note the similarity seems to very much be a case of overly-loyal trekkies who don't want to admit that their favorite show had any influences in the vast field of older Science Fiction. This article needs to note the similarity to be taken seriously. It would be like having an article called "Take me to your superiors" and not note that it's essentially identical to the old phrase "Take me to your leader." Dean Esmay (talk) 03:30, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

As I always ask in the circumstances, cite? With regards your declaration that I must be one of many "overly-loyal trekkies", check my edit history, which is open to anyone to look at. I have scrubbed a great deal of original research/uncited speculation from other Star Trek article, so let's not start any uncivil behaviour. Alastairward (talk) 09:56, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes I agree, the phase ‘Resistance in futile’ was indeed used twice in the episode The Dorcons (Space 1999) shown back in 1978. I think, although I might be wrong, that this episode may have in some was inspired the creation of the Borg.

My first wiki edit. Hope I didn't step on any toes ;) Added Maya's "Resistance...is futile" line from the "Dorcons" episode.

Spazmo77 02:49, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

First reference to "Resistance is Futile" is Spaced 1999 (1 May 1978 Season 2, Episode 24) the words were uttered by actress Catherine Schell —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.154.238.188 (talk) 12:43, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

And what does that have to do with the Borg or Star Trek? Alastairward (talk) 13:07, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Not a whole lot, but this article is about the phrase "Resistance is futile", rather than the Borg, and therefore this mention - filmed in 1976 and first aired in 1977 (1978 in Britain), two decades before it was used on Star Trek - seems worth pointing out. That being said, one could argue that this phrase doesn't need its own article, and should be merged with Borg_(Star_Trek), but that's another discussion.

I just watched this episode of Space_1999, and can confirm that the phrase is used there. Through an external link on Wikipedia's Space: 1999 page, I found what they claim is the script of that episode, and a transcript of the episode, although I'm not sure that these are good sources. The entire episode is on YouTube, but I'm guessing that's in violation of some copyright, so I suppose we shouldn't cite it.

I suggest it be added. It's from a fairly notable show, it pre-dates Hitchhiker's_Guide#Original_radio_series and - unlike the Dalek/Vogon phrase - matches the Borg phrase to the letter. ...not taking capitalization into account, of course ;) --Tesseraktik (talk) 15:32, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

That's the thing, why have the phrase here at all unless it was notable and what's made it notable? I've provided cites to show that it's been used outside the Star Trek franchise because of its use in Star Trek. The only other use outside that is a line in one TV show and a single link noting it as a catchphrase somewhere on another show. Is there anything that suggests similar significance for its appearance in Doctor Who or Space1999? Alastairward (talk) 22:51, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

I've added to the mention of it's usage in Doctor Who to point it out as the first noted usage (and cited so). Though probably not connected to it's usage in Star Trek, it is connected to it's usage in sci-fi and relevant to the article title and is likely to be of interest to both the science fiction fans and etymologists reading this thus should be noted. 92.2.90.119 (talk) 19:47, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Other

It is also a line in a Police song.

NantucketNoon (talk) 06:33, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Not just the Borg

Just a thought, but I think this article should make it more clear that this is a well-known catch-phrase outside of the Star Trek realm. Specifically, I would change the first sentence to say "a catchphrase used by antagonists to intimidate and pacify any who would otherwise oppose or resist against them," or something of that nature. Oh, and the Who references provided only predate HHGG by like 3 years, not a decade. (Morethan3words (talk) 03:57, 3 July 2008 (UTC))

Does it really matter who used it first?

The article is about the catchphrase used by the Borg, is there any significance to its use before it appeared in Star Trek? Can any of these early uses be linked to Star Trek in any way? Alastairward (talk) 09:55, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Indeed, this phrase is only notable because of the popularity and meaning it gained when used by the borg. Everything else is, "irrelevant." Dogabutila (talk) 07:48, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Indeed not. The phrase and variants of it have been familar for a long time before Star Trek. The article is simply wrong and misleading.Paul B (talk) 14:47, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Wrong how? There's a deletion log to show a more indepth debate on the issue you raise.Alastairward (talk) 17:39, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Indeed, and the point that the phrase was well known before the Borg is made there. Why are you trying to deny it? This article is about a phrase. You have wilfully misrepresented its history by deleting material about its use before Star Trek. Paul B (talk) 22:43, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Yet the phrase was not notable nor significant before propelled into public knowledge by startrek. Ask 100 random people on the street who said it and they will say the borg did. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dogabutila (talk • contribs) 05:06, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps if we had some sort of cited link between the previous use of the phrase (such as was suggested) and it's heavy use by the Borg and the references to it, we could certainly add such a thing. Alastairward (talk) 08:20, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

As a 40 plus non-US English speaking New Zealander, I was highly aware of and used the phrase regularly long before Star Trek's Borg characters were even written. The phrase clearly predates your Borg use and was highly lexicallised in popular culture. The above suggested research interview of 100 random street people would give extremely variable results dependant on demographics, location, age, etc. There is already enough cited reference material to produce a new page of disambiguated material, perhaps "Resistance is Futile (Historical)". I would also suggest that this page should become "Resistance is Futile (Star Trek)". Until there is another page outside the control of WikiProject Star Trek, regular users will miss out on valuable and interesting knowledge.(118.92.212.59 (talk) 09:15, 27 July 2009 (UTC))

Can you provide such cites and help us ascertain notability outside the Star Trek franchise? Alastairward (talk) 09:56, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

I agree that a Historical section is needed. The earlier usages are significant in that the phrase 'leapt' from the older shows to Star Trek. Same exact wording, same circumstances in the Space: 1999 case - from the ship of the more powerful race to the less powerful over a video screen. While I agree that the phrase didn't reach common public usage until after Star Trek, I believe its origins are worth knowing. Jeff Van Epps (talk) 11:58, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

The article is already short as it is, I'm not sure where some sort of historical section might fit in. Use of the phrase before has already been cited, but nothing to suggest it "leapt" to Star Trek. Suggesting that there is a link where there is none is OR. Alastairward (talk) 12:13, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

The article is short ... so something else won't fit? Odd logic. But I wasn't thinking of it being on the same page anyway. Like someone wrote last year, a new page. As for the link, it's glaringly obvious, nearly plagiarism if it isn't homage. Jeff Van Epps (talk) 22:00, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Simple solution, change the wording of the opening line to say it's a popular science fiction phrase made 'prevalent in popular culture' by it's use in Next Gen and then have a heading listing earlier uses. That way the article still focuses on it's most well known usage in Star Trek but rightly acknowledges was by no means a new one in sci-fi rather than revising history. 92.2.90.119 (talk) 22:49, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

"Popular in science fiction"? Or used in "science fiction that is popular"? The cites show an abundance of use in Star Trek, once in Doctor Who and something similar used again in the show an indeterminate number of times. WikiuserNI (talk) 15:08, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

A few people on this very discussion page have stated being quite familiar with the term prior to it's use in Next Gen and it was used in Hitchhiker's guide and twice in Space 1999 in the space of about two-three years so I'd say it was a relatively popular non-technical phrase in the genre yes. 92.3.25.29 (talk) 16:42, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy

this was also a catchprhase form the vogons in HHGG series in the 70s. therefore or the borg said it before 1990 or the original is from douglas adams —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.122.9.250 (talk) 02:34, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

I wouldn't call it a catchphrase - yes it was a line that was spoken, but it was spoken in one scene only and then never mentioned again. -mattbuck (Talk) 03:02, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

If it could be proven that the writers of the show were paying homage, then it would be a notable claim to add. Otherwise, as Mattbuck stated above, it's simply a coincidence. Alastairward (talk) 09:38, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

But this article is about a phrase made popular by Star Trek, not Star Trek itself, the article title is 'Resistance is futile' not 'Resistance is futile (Star Trek)' it should cover the etymology and the usage of the phrase in general or be renamed Resistance is futile (Star Trek) not write it out of history. 92.3.25.29 (talk) 16:47, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

And if those other mentions are trivial? What then? WikiuserNI (talk) 20:44, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

World War II connection?

Any relation between this phrase, and that used by the Germans in World War II against the Netherlands? Or is that just a translation issue?--Tim Thomason 01:53, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Other uses of the phrase

Why is the article ONLY mentioning it's use in Star Trek? Granted the phrase was brought into popular culture in the US by Star Trek, but in the UK it was already associated with Doctor Who as one of the phrases used by the Daleks. I realise that it's use in ST is more significant as it reached a wider audience, but feel it is misleading not to include other uses of the phrase, whether they are related to the Borg saying or not. The article is titled "Resistance is futile", not "Resistance is futile (Star Trek)". The first use in DW was in 1963 and is available on DVD and can be properly sourced. Beeurd (talk) 18:26, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Since when was it associated with the Daleks? Their catchphrase is pretty simple and pretty memorable, "Exterminate."

The article isn't title with (Star Trek) as it has gone beyond that show into the wider world. If it can be attributable to other shows (as, say, an influence on the writers of Star Trek) then cite it. :As is stands, the article reflects how the saying from Trek leapt into the wider worlds. Simply saying a phrase like it was heard on another show is trivial. Alastairward (talk) 21:42, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

The phrase "Resistance is futile" was spoken in part 2 of the "Enlightenment" episode of Dr. Who (5th Doctor), Aired March 2, 1983. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MountainHawkPYL (talk • contribs) 00:14, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

Seven of Nine

Not a single reference to Seven using it? 74.229.215.99 08:38, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

She used it numerous times, beginning with the Star Trek: Voyager episode Scorpion, Part 2. In fact, the later episode Waking Moments began with Ensign Kim's dream that Seven seduced him, her saying "Resistance is futile"! But that was years after the Enterprise D met the Borg and is therefore irrelevant to the discussion. --Glenn L (talk) 08:06, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Pronunciation?

Do we need a guide on how to pronounce "Resistance is futile"? 67.86.126.40 04:15, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Much older than attributed here

Title says all. No time to research now. I guess this person has no idea how to make a coherent point, so I'll steal their section. Can anyone make sense of the sentence in the first section: "In 1979's Star Trek: The Motion Picture, however, Mr. Spock, after Commander Willard Decker's explanation about a phaser strike weaken just enough to break free, told Captain James T. Kirk that "any short resistance would be futile." I'd try to help, but no idea what that is supposed to say.

Pronunciation

Perhaps it's just a quibble on my part, but it might be worthwhile to point out (to non-speakers of AmEng, for example) that in the original (i.e., in Star Trek), the adjective futile is pronounced approximately fute ill rather than the Standard/BritEng pronunciation fute isle. Nuttyskin (talk) 10:10, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

You mean "Fyu- tile" or "Fyu- t'l"... I would imagine one would pronounce it in one's own accent. Naturally, the collective would consist of various accents (the Borg Queen has both a South African and a Californian accent, you know...) and would simply add to the white noise of the collective. Besides, Federation Starships have universal translators, so just adjust your setting and select whichever accent, language, dialect you like... But if you must know, here's some help; "Resistance is Futile". • This witty response was brought to you by the ever narcissistic ZellDenver (talk) 19:19, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

similar catchphrases

Cited reputable source notices similarity. You have no right to delete referenced relevant info. - Altenmann >t 22:25, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

I have every right to remove poorly written material that does not refer properly to it's source. This article, as per talk above, is about the catchphrase used by certain characters on a certain show. If there is a connection between the use of this phrase, and it's limited use in other franchises, please show that it is a direct link. Alastairward (talk) 23:21, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

The article title is about a "phrase" not about "phrase used by certain characers". A phrase is a phrase is a phrase. It can be and is used by anybody. The section does no claim about any "connection". It talks about similarity. - Altenmann >t

The phrase is only significant because of it's use in Star Trek, that's the point. Read the previous AfD. Alastairward (talk) 00:22, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

What's that assumption based on? The cites for it becoming popular due to Star Trek are sketchy at best, and one of them (#1) isn't even relevant as far as I can tell, and should be removed. In any case, plenty of people have made valid arguments as to why this phrase should be solely attributable to one show (and what the objection is to a list of all the times it's been used, as is standard for the wiki). --Stevehim (talk) 15:31, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Which is the sketchy cite? The first one seems to mention it in connection with popular culture pretty clearly. Cites which mention it in connection with just about anything else are skant. WikiuserNI (talk) 15:53, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Recanted. For some reason my search didn't work when I posted that and all I saw was the phrase on the side of the Chinese Sinograph book, not in the text. --Stevehim (talk) 02:51, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Anime reference

Has it occurred to anyone else that those words couldn't have been used in the Star Blazers anime since it would have been in Japanese and any words that were in English would have just been done by the people who later dubbed it (or subbed it)?

174.25.70.234 (talk) 03:24, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Futile or Irrelevant?

Isn't the original Borg quote, "Resistance is Irrelevant"?

Keybounce (talk) 19:37, 28 January 2011 (UTC)