Talk:Res divina

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I found this: However, Harper's Latin Dictionary (1891) : "divinus" A., 603 (column 1), cites as very frequent - "re divina facta" = religious exercise, divine worship, sacrifice, etc. giving numerous citations. [1] WHEELER 02:03, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

At this page of a Roman historical society they have this:

COLLEGIVM AVGVRVM

Auspiciis hanc urbem conditam esse, auspiciis bello ac pace domi militiaeque omnia geri, quis est qui ignoret? (”Who can ignore that this city was founded only after taking the auspices? That everything in war and in peace, at home and abroad, was done only after taking the auspices?”) Livy

The ceremony and function of the Augur is central to any major undertaking in Res Romana - public or private.

1. The duties of an Augur are twofold: to assist the magistrates in taking the auspices, and to preserve a scientific knowledge of the art.

2. Augurs are elected for life, and retain a sacred character.

3. When a vacancy in the Collegium Augurum occurs, the candidate shall be nominated by two of the elder members of the college, the electors shall be sworn, and the new member shall then solemnly inaugurated.

4. An elder Augur always votes before a younger, even if the latter fills one of the higher offices of the state.

5. The head of the college shall be called the Magister Collegii.

6. No one shall be elected to the office of Augur, who is known to be an enemy to any member of the college.

The above was taken from: Collegivm Avgvrvm

Now the above quote is a link on this page called Res Divina:

Faith (Res Divina)

While recognizing that religion in ancient Rome combined several different cult practices and embraced more than a single set of beliefs, all members shall be required to respect the worship of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman Republic.

College of Pontiffs (Collegium Pontificum)

College of Augurs (Collegium Augurum)

The Res Romano, or the State of Rome had the responsibility of performing religious duties to the gods. This is the importance of Res Divina.WHEELER 02:21, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Res Divina was part and parcel of the loose Roman Constitution. Religious duties were commanded by the Laws of Rome. Those laws were Res divina.WHEELER 02:22, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"This concrete quality is shown by precise determinations as to place, temple, persons, and formalities in which or by means of which the acts of invoking or placating the deity take place: proceedings which the Romans designated by the term res divina and the Etruscans (probably) aisna (i.e. 'divine' service; from ais, god).

"These proceedings take place within consecrated ground (the 'templum') of which mention has already been made: an enclosure with altars and sacred buildings containing images of the gods. Such buildings were often made to face the south. The concept of consacration for worship of a particular piece of ground or building was was perhaps expressed in Etruscan by the word sacni (whence the verb sacnis’a): this status could be extended, as in Greece and Rome, to a complex assemblage of enclosures and temples as on the acropolis of many cities (e.g. Marzabotto). Characteristics in some ways similar were shown by funerary enclosures, near which or within which sacrifices were offered and gifts deposited.

Fr Etruscan Religion WHEELER 02:29, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Scholarly work

"Others have also been generous with their time and wisdom. Carlin Barton, Richard Billows, John North, and R.E.A. Palmer all read and commented on the manuscript in whole or in part and improved it considerably. I am particularly indebted also to Jerzy Linderski for sharing the enormous wealth of his erudition and especially for guiding a novice through the maze of the res divina at Rome. Few scholars could hope to be more fortunate than I have been in my colleagues—Jack Balcer, Timothy Gregory, John Guilmartin, Joseph Lynch, and Stephen Tracy. They as well as Richard Rothaus all read the manuscript in its entirety and greatly enhanced its quality. Needless to say, none of them is to blame for the shortcomings that remain. I am also grateful to Douglas O'Roark for compiling the bibliography. The Department of History and the College of Humanities at The Ohio State University as well as Franklin and Marshall College all generously provided support."

Found at Imperatores Victi

This sentence here depicts that res divina is a category; a category of the religious laws of Rome. These laws are part and parcel of the Roman constitution that Government Officials had to carry out. If religious ceremonies was mandated by the government, then it was part of the Constitution. WHEELER 02:48, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Furthermore, I am a poor dumb bastard, and half the sites with "res divina" have been closed off to me. I can't pay a subscription price and for the numerous academic sites require pay as it should be. Poverty on my part, my location away from any college, lack of transportation, time and money, all prevent me from doing this article justice. I ask mercy on the deletion notice because of this. There is a case for "res divina".WHEELER 02:48, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone find this guy Jerzy Linderski and get his input. I think it would be wonderful.WHEELER 02:52, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Inscription

ut conveniant ad eA·SACRIFICIA·DENVNTIATVM erit
k. in. et. a. d. iiii NON·IVN·ET·A·D·III·NON·IVN·NOCTu
MAIORES·ANN·XXV·NATAE·QVIbus
conveniRE·IN·CAPITOLIVM·VBI·ET·RES·DIVINA·FI
ADSINT
PVEROS·VIRGINESQVE·PATRIMOS·MATRIMosque
ad carmen canENDVM·CHOROSQVE·HABENDOS·FREQVENTES·convenire

Found at: Thayer's Lacus Curtius

I don't read Latin but does the "res divina" here signify a category?WHEELER 02:56, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

divinus -a -um. (1) belonging or relating to a deity, divine; 'res divina', the service of the gods; n. as subst. a sacrifice; in plur. divine things or attributes. (2) divinely inspired, prophetic; 'vates', a poet; m. as subst., a seer. (3) noble, admirable. Adv. divine, divinely, by divine power; by divine inspiration, prophetically; admirably, excellently.

Found at Latin dictionary

Wikipedia is not a dictionary. Res divina is the label for those laws that prescribed that Government officials had to do. "Service to the Gods" is done by government officials.WHEELER 03:03, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"One of the commonest forms of taboo is that on women, who, especially at certain periods, were apparently believed to be “infectious.”14 Of this belief we have very distinct survivals in Roman ritual, which I must here be content to mention only, leaving details to trained anthropologists to explain. We find them both in sacra privata and sacra publica. Cato has preserved the formula for the propitiation of Mars Silvanus in the private rites of the farm; it is to take place in silva, and its object is the protection of the cattle, doubtless those which have been turned out to pasture in the forest, and are therefore in danger from evil beasts and evil spirits. Now this res divina may be performed either by a free man or a slave, but no woman may be present, nor see what is going on.15 In sacra publica women were excluded from the cult of Hercules at the Ara Maxima, and were not allowed to swear by the name of that god; facts which are usually connected with the doubtful identification of Hercules with Genius, or the male principle of life.16 More conclusive evidence of taboo in the case of women is the fact that at certain sacrifices they were ordered to withdraw, both mulieres and virgines together with other persons to be mentioned directly.17 Unfortunately we are not told what those sacrifices were but it seems clear enough that there had been at one time a scruple (religio) about admitting women of any age to certain sacred rites. If so, it is remarkable how the good sense of the Roman people overcame any serious disabilities which might have been produced by such ideas the Roman woman gained for herself a position of dignity and even of authority, in her household, which had very important results on the formation of the character of the people.18 Traces of the old superstition doubtless continued to survive in folklore; an example, interesting because it seems to illustrate the positive aspect of taboo (mana), may be found by the curious in Pliny's Natural History, xxviii. 78." Found at Religious experience of the Roman people

What I gather here is that Res Divina is split into Sacra privata and Sacra publica

incorporation of new material

I'm going to remove the tag at the top and incorporate material from the developing Imperial cult (ancient Rome) article. At the moment, I don't intend to do a thorough job of integration, but promise to follow the Hippocratic and druidic maxim of "Do no harm." Cynwolfe (talk) 00:26, 27 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Name and content

Res divina simply means a religious service or ritual held on particular times or occasions, usually at established places, possibly temples or sacred sites.

The article goes on to discuss Roman religion cult and even beliefs. This might be relevant but here is loosely presented.

Moreover there are some questionable statements: Roman religion was first the same of Latins and foremostly Sabins (king Numa and Titus Tatius were Sabin). While mentioning Etruscan elements may be appropriate, it should be stated that Haruspicina was considered for a long time a foreign lore and looked upon suspiciously. (Romans consulted haruspices only 3 times from 509 BC to the second Punic war and were cheated twice).

The Carthagenian elements: what are they(maybe in Etruria, ie Pyrgi)? Greek elements: great and difficult topic. See eg the cult of Hercules and the question of the first dwellers of the site of Rome, Evander and the Argei.Aldrasto11 (talk) 13:10, 18 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This article has an odd history; it was created a long time ago, abandoned for a while, and then used to 'dump' some content from Religion in ancient Rome to try to prevent that article from becoming too long. It never seems to have been the object of much organized development. It's quite possible that it could be handled adequately as an entry in Glossary of ancient Roman religion, as a term rather than something requiring a full conceptual presentation. Cynwolfe (talk) 14:29, 21 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewing this after having made a few more notes, I still think it likely that the article could be condensed to an entry for the Glossary. I agree with what Aldrasto said about the looseness of the organization, and a cursory look at some scholarship renews my feeling that this doesn't need an article. Will look at it more closely toward that end, if there are no objections. Cynwolfe (talk) 17:38, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note for future development: here is the relevant material from Varro via Augustine. Cynwolfe (talk) 04:29, 12 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]